Part 117

A. No, sir; I think when we saw him he was out of his buggy. His buggy was a short distance away from him--at least I thought it was his buggy. I don't know whether it was or not; I didn't ask him.

Q. Proceed?

A. We then followed General Brinton across the bridge, and inquired at the end of the bridge if anybody had followed him across the bridge. We thought perhaps the mob had pursued him. He stated that nobody crossed the bridge after him--the toll man. We followed through the town, where everything was peaceful, and there was no indications of any mob, and found General Brinton's command perhaps a half a mile beyond Sharpsburg. The carriage drove up, and I hallooed to some officer, I don't remember who he was, and he directed the command to be opened, and we drove through and I joined General Brinton. We got out of the carriage before he stopped his command, as my recollection is, and then I joined him and continued to walk with him. There were some of his officers around, of course. I couldn't swear positively as to whom were all there, and my first salutation to General Brinton was congratulating him upon his escape, and then made some remarks about where in the name of Heaven he was going, or something of the kind. He was going in the wrong direction, and then the conversation ensued about the order, in which I said that an order had been prepared, signed by Captain Aull. I may have said an officer. I may not have mentioned Captain Aull; but I think I did--pretty sure I did--because very likely when I knew he had gone with the order, and that he had it that, I did say so. General Brinton said that he couldn't take his command back in the condition they were in, and he wouldn't take his command back. He said perhaps if he had a positive order he might go, which implies at once--I don't think he will deny that--that he was pursuing the wrong direction. He then commenced to talk to me about his ammunition and provisions, and I suggested to him to levy mail on the country, to assess the provisions if his troops were in that condition. He said he wouldn't do that, he would have two hundred and fifty thousand people in the country down upon him. That I am positive he said. I then suggested that he should go back to Sharpsburg, saying that he could hold his position there. I didn't say this as an order, perhaps, but it was in our conversation. Of course, I had no right to give it as an order, and I did not. And he said he was not satisfied with the disposition of the people at Sharpsburg. That they were even worse there than they were at Pittsburgh. I thought that rather strange, because I had seen a train standing there, and people sitting in their yards, as we drove through. I am sure he said that. He said, further, that he had been fired on from that train--at least, I so understood it. It may have been from the cars in the city--I may have gotten the two mixed, so far as that is concerned. He said, too, that I told him where he first turned off to unite with Colonel Guthrie. And he said he had been followed by at least a thousand armed men to that point, and they had men over in the direction of Colonel Guthrie. I asked him whether I should go with his command, or go back. He said he would prefer that I would go back, and endeavor to get provisions and ammunition for him. Of course, there had been a running conversation about provisions and ammunition, and his men looked as though they needed it. The most of this conversation passed between us while we were walking along, and I am certain it couldn't have been heard by all of his officers, because Brinton and I went side by side--it could have been heard, a good deal of it. I have no doubt these gentlemen are perfectly honest in saying they didn't hear me say it. I am sure some of them know that what I have stated to-night they did hear. We then had a talk about whether I should stop there, or whether I should go back. And he said he would go on a short distance, and remain there--I think he said about a mile, on a hill. I forgot to say that when I first met him, in speaking about his designs in leaving the city, he said he wanted to get the river between him and the mob, and to reach the hills and entrench; and that was his object in going across the river, so that he could feed his troops and revive them. When I closed the conversation with him, he said then he would go a short distance beyond--and I think he said half a mile--and remain there. That he didn't remain, I only know, of course, from hearsay--that he was not there.

Q. Did you see Captain Aull when he started with the order?

A. Did I see him when he started?

Q. Yes?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long did he go prior to your starting?

A. Possibly half an hour, probably more--may have been more. I couldn't swear to that positively. He started before I did. When Captain Aull started, I suppose he went out with his buggy, and we, in the meantime, had to get a carriage. It simply was an effort to duplicate the attempt to reach Brinton, and I volunteered to go, as I said, simply for that reason. I had no other object in the world.

Q. You saw the order handed to him by General Latta, did you?

A. Yes; I did.

Q. Did you read the order?

A. The order was read to me, sir. The order, as you observe, contained a suggestion to General Brinton to consult with him in regard to the situation in Pittsburgh. Of course, we had a running general conversation about what had happened in Pittsburgh. The general asked him about the hotel--whether it had been burned, and, when I left, he handed me, and several of the officers handed me, their checks, which were afterwards delivered, I believe, by one of the officers of the staff or one of the gentlemen, over to Major Baugh.

Q. When you overtook Captain Aull, at the arsenal, did you have any conversation with him, as to where he was going then?

A. No; I didn't.

Q. Had you then learned where Brinton's troops were?

A. Nothing positive, sir. I don't know whether Captain Aull knew positively. He just, I supposed, had ascertained in some way from inquiries made along the road.

Q. When you reached General Brinton, you say you indicated to him the fact that Captain Aull had delivered an order, or an officer had delivered an order?

A. An officer had an order to effect this junction.

Q. You are not certain whether you named Captain Aull or you named an officer?

A. I am not positive about it, but I feel very sure that I did, because of the fact that Captain Aull had the order that had been read to me, and that he had started in advance of me, and all that, and it strikes me that I would say so. I cannot see why I should not. Of course I may not have done it.

Q. Did you communicate to him the fact of having seen Captain Aull at the arsenal?

A. I don't know that I did, sir.

Q. Or that you left an officer at the arsenal?

A. I don't know that I did that. I may have done so, without having any recollection of it.

Q. Was any other person with you in the carriage, except Mr. Stewart?

A. No, sir; nobody accompanied us except the driver. It was an ordinary cab, and the driver was on the outside.

Q. When you reached General Brinton's force, did the driver drive you to General Brinton?

A. I think not all the way. I think I got out before we reached him. I may not have done so. I wouldn't be sure about that, but am pretty sure we got out before we reached General Brinton and joined him, walking up to him.

Q. When you left the carriage, did Stewart leave the carriage with you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did he accompany you to General Brinton?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did General Brinton stop himself?

A. He didn't stop. My recollection is that the general didn't stop his command until his surgeon came up and asked him to stop, to take a ball from the shoulder of one of the men. Then they stopped, and the place where we stopped was along a small ravine, where several of the officers and ourselves sat down.

Q. Then you walked beside him for some little distance before he stopped?

A. Yes; I think I must have walked three fourths of a mile or a mile. I say that, from the fact that we had to go back to find our carriage, and our carriage stopped about the place we left it, and I think it was fully three quarters of a mile or a mile before we joined it. I know we became a good deal alarmed about it, and were afraid that we had lost him, and it was during our walk back we met I think Dr. Mears.

Q. Did you and General Brinton walk side by side?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where was Stewart during that time?

A. Stewart was walking by my side, and perhaps on the other side of General Brinton a portion of the time. I am pretty positive he was present during nearly everything that was said.

Q. Were there any officers walking with General Brinton when you overtook him?

A. Yes; I think there were.

Q. Did they continue to walk along?

A. Well, I think probably they did--some of them.

Q. Did you know the officers?

A. I remember General Loud being there. I remember Colonel Wilson being there; but whether they were around when everything was said I didn't know. I remember seeing Mr. Pettit. I remember seeing Dale Benson, but not with them. I think I met him on my way back. I know I shook hands with him.

Q. Do you remember of seeing Surgeon Mears?

A. I recollect about Surgeon Mears directly. I recollect him bringing up some bread, after we had left the command on our way back--that is, the person I took for Surgeon Mears. I have met him since, but I don't think I knew him then.

Q. After you had walked some distance, General Brinton halted, I understand you to say?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long did you remain standing there in conversation?

A. Well, I don't suppose we had a ten minutes' conversation there.

Q. Did you remain standing all the time?

A. No, sir; I think we sat down, or sort of lolled on a bank or something of the kind. I don't think we stood, because we were all pretty tired. I know I was dreadful tired. That was the chief cause of my alarm when we went back to find the carriage, because I was satisfied I could never reach Pittsburgh. I had been up for two nights, and was worn out. The ride was a dreadful one.

Q. In communicating to him that an officer had been sent out with an order, you communicated to him the substance of the order you saw?

A. Yes; it was as I explained to him. I didn't say it in those words, probably, simply the substance of those orders, and they were to effect a junction with Guthrie. The whole object was to have the troops concentrated, and it was with that purpose that I went out. There was no earthly purpose for me to go and find General Brinton, other than that.

Q. In communicating that to him, did you tell him that General Latta had requested you to communicate the order to him?

A. Yes; I think I did.

Q. Did you tell him you had been sent for that purpose?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did he make any reply?

A. Yes; he said what I have said, that if he got a positive order, he would take his command back. I can say, too, without any reservation, that there was no reason under heaven why General Brinton should not have stopped with his command at Sharpsburg. There was not a symptom of the riot within two miles, after we left the skirts of it, at the arsenal. We rode on, and, of course, we met groups of men, but there were none of them that numbered thirty, and he was followed up by nobody from Sharpsburg but a small collection of boys, that were in the rear of his column, more out of curiosity than anything else, and that was the reason I suggested his taking up the position there, because I knew, and I said to him, we could have access to him there very easily, because the trains were then running, and I had seen a train standing there, and it moved off as we passed toward Allegheny, and my idea was, that if he wanted provisions and ammunition we could more easily get it there for him than at any other point, and I said that he could protect that bridge against any force. Any one who knows the bridge would be aware of that. It is an open bridge, and those two guns would have protected it against any force coming in that direction.

Q. Did you meet any officer of General Brinton's command on your return to Pittsburgh?

A. That had been with him?

Q. Any one that had remained in the city during the night?

A. Major Baugh.

Q. Where did you meet Major Baugh?

A. I saw Major Baugh at the Monongahela house.

Q. What time?

A. That night, sir.

Q. Did you meet him when you were returning to Pittsburgh anywheres about the arsenal, or on the way going to General Brinton's command?

A. I don't think I did. I met one officer, and I thought he was Doctor Mears--he had the bread in a bucket--and I don't think we met anybody else, because I cannot remember this circumstance, and if we had met them, I would have recollected it. We were followed, just after the doctor accosted us, by a man on horseback, who endeavored to have us intercepted three or four times--came up to the carriage--and when we got into Pittsburgh, evidently tried to have us intercepted by the mob, and we drove through the alleys to escape him, and we were more concerned about that than anything else at that time, and I think if we would have met anybody, it would have impressed itself upon my mind, and I don't recollect meeting anybody after we crossed the bridge. That I am quite sure. We didn't discover this man until we got across the bridge, and we discovered it by his coming up, and making inquiries, and making some remarks.

Q. After you crossed the bridge, you don't remember of meeting Major Baugh?

A. I don't, sir.

Q. Who made the inquiries of you?

A. Major Baugh?

Q. Yes, sir?

A. I don't have the slightest recollection of that. I think the one officer we took for Surgeon Mears. I think he was pretty nearly where this man accosted us.

Q. When Major Baugh came to the hotel in the evening, did you learn the object of his mission?

A. What--to General Latta?

Q. Yes?

A. No, sir; I couldn't say that I did.

Q. Did you hear any conversation between him and General Latta?

A. I may have heard it without having any recollection of it.

Q. Do you know whether General Latta gave him any orders or not?

A. I really don't know that, sir.

Q. That is all, unless you desire to state something further.

A. I have nothing to say, sir, I believe, except what I have said. I simply would ask these gentlemen to be called who heard me, because when I went back I made a statement which, in substance, is what I said here, and I may have said it a little different, but substantially the same, to Colonel Guthrie; and Captain Aull is here himself, and he knows that I was present when the order was given, and Colonel Stewart was present with me all the time, and I simply would like to have them called for that reason, to show that my two statements are consistent.

* * * * *

Colonel P. N. Guthrie, re-called:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You may state what Colonel Norris stated to you on his return from General Brinton's command, in relation to his conversation with General Brinton?

A. Well, Mr. Chairman, I would like to start out a little further back than that, because Major Norris stated nothing to me of his own will, only at my request. I would like to state here that when Captain Aull left my regiment to enter the town, he was sent by me with instructions to General Latta, to this effect: that I didn't believe, at that hour, it was possible for the troops from Walls station to reach me; and that it was useless for me to remain at the stock-yards; and to report fully to General Latta the condition in which my regiment was placed; that we were doing nothing, and of no particular service to the railroad or to the public peace, and neither the railroad, at that hour, was threatened, nor the public peace. Captain Aull having gone in and witnessed the departure of General Brinton from the round-house, and conveyed that information to General Latta, receiving an order from General Latta, to be conveyed to General Brinton, one copy of which was to be conveyed to me, and reaching me at an hour of the day--I do not remember what--with the information that he had not reached General Brinton, I deemed it of the greatest importance that I should know, of my own knowledge, what was the intention of the Adjutant General, and what was the condition of the forces. I waited at the stock-yards until I was satisfied by the actual appearance of the troops from Walls station, and from knowledge that I had received by sending one of the men from my regiment out in search of General Brinton, that there was no possibility of that junction. I then came into town fully impressed with the necessity that there should be some understanding between General Brinton's troops and mine, which was the only regiment left in Allegheny county, or in the vicinity of Pittsburgh and Allegheny, after General Brinton had crossed the river at Sharpsburg. I came in there to ascertain information from General Latta. I met Colonel Norris, and I asked him the question. At first he gave me no particular information. Afterwards, when I asked him again, he told me that he and Major Stewart had gone out in search of General Brinton, and had reached him at a point, I understood, across the Sharpsburg bridge. That he had represented to General Brinton that an order had been issued by General Latta, which was an order to him, General Brinton, through Captain Aull, instructing General Brinton to form a junction with me. When that junction was formed, General Brinton was to judge himself of the circumstances, and govern himself accordingly. It was my belief, that if that junction had been formed, the troops could have come into Pittsburgh, and reached the vicinity of that disturbance in time to have saved property. I asked Major Norris, particularly, if he had seen General Brinton and had conversed with him. He said he had. I asked him what the reply was, and he said that General Brinton was not able to come in. I asked him again what General Brinton's reply was. He shrugged up his shoulders, and still did not give me the verbal reply of General Brinton. Sometime afterward, in conversation with Colonel Norris, he told me that General Brinton had refused to form that junction with him, that is, to return from the position that he was then in. There is no "ifs" and "ands" in the matter, in my mind. My impression is distinct and clear that Colonel Norris told me he had met General Brinton and he had had that conversation with General Brinton. He had urged upon General Brinton that he would comply with what were the instructions of this order, though General Brinton had not received it. That General Brinton had refused to comply with that order. I would further state to the committee here, that a copy of that order that was intended for General Brinton reached him on Sunday. I brought it back into the city on Sunday afternoon to General Latta, and I delivered it myself, personally, to General Brinton, at his head-quarters at the hospital, in Pittsburgh, after the return to Pittsburgh.

Q. What day?

A. Well, nearly a week--just a week. I gave it personally to General Brinton.

Q. The 31st of July, was it not?

A. I guess so. It was after General Brinton had gone back to the junction and then returned to Pittsburgh with the Governor. General Brinton told me at that time, that that was the first information he had of that order.

Q. The copy was delivered to you by Captain Aull, was it, colonel?

A. Captain Aull failed to reach General Brinton, for reasons which I will let Captain Aull state to you himself.

Q. I do not quite understand your statement, whether it was the original or a copy that was delivered?

A. The original order. There was one copy of that order, the original order is probably on file in the head-quarters. Copies of the order were given to Captain Aull, one for General Brinton and one for myself.

Q. You brought it into the city and kept it in your possession all the time, until you delivered it to General Brinton?

A. I kept it in my possession until I delivered it, personally, to General Brinton, at the hospital grounds, after the return to the city.

Q. Do you know whether General Latta was notified that General Brinton had not received the order?

A. I cannot say. I do not remember whether I stated that fact to General Latta or not. I do not believe I did. I went into town fully impressed that General Brinton would not join me, and that some other arrangement of troops must be made, and I do not know whether I stated to General Latta that General Brinton would not join me, and that he must make some other arrangement, or whether I stated to him that Captain Aull had been unable to reach General Brinton. At all events, the original order General Brinton never received until the 31st, I believe it was.

* * * * *

Captain W. F. Aull, re-called:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Just state, if you please, what your conversation was with Colonel Norris, and why you did not reach General Brinton with the order given to you by General Latta Sunday morning, the 22d July?