Part 104
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Mayor Phillips, _sworn_:
By Mr. Means:
Q. I would like to ask you one question. The committee would like to know, or I would, at least, if you put Allegheny City into the hands of this man Ammon, and if so, what you told him?
A. Put Allegheny city into the hands of Ammon?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Emphatically, no! I never put anything into the hands of Ammon.
Q. Did you tell him to take charge of the lower part of Allegheny City?
A. I did not, sir.
Q. Did you tell him to resist any arrest that might be attempted to be made upon him?
A. Positively, no! I will tell you what I did say. When I went, I found there were five or six hundred men, and my force was very small and I cautioned them to be careful what they are doing, that they would get themselves into trouble, there is danger ahead, and says I, "Be careful what you are doing." That was the sum and substance of what I said. I cautioned Ammon, and it turns out there were three or four of my officers heard me say so. The chief of police is here now, if you would like to have him corroborate it.
Q. Do you know of any official communication that Ammon had with the railroad officials?
A. I do not, sir.
Q. Do you know of any communication at all that he had with them?
A. Hearsay, sir. I know nothing of my own knowledge--only heard it indirectly, from some person to me, that he had something from J. D. Layng.
Q. He did not tell you himself?
A. No, sir.
Q. Saw no telegram from Mr. Layng to him?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Robert Ammon during the time he had charge of that railroad--the Fort Wayne railroad?
A. Yes, sir; I had conversation--at the time he had charge?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. I did not know that he had charge. He was there.
Q. Did he tell you at any time that one of your police officers attempted to arrest him, and he refused to be arrested?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know of the fact that one of your police officers attempted to arrest him?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you, at any time, attempt to arrest Ammon--any of your officers?
A. Afterwards. Will I give you the particulars of that, sir--the time that I went down with the policemen to protect that ten miles of freight, and again to bring up the first lot.
Q. What day was that?
A. I cannot tell you.
Q. That was after the riot?
A. Several days.
Q. I mean the Friday morning when the trouble first commenced in Allegheny?
A. It was Thursday or Friday before the troubles over here--Thursday or Friday. You asked me about something on Friday?
Q. Yes?
A. No. I only went down there at that time. I think that is the only time I ever saw him, except after that, the day he was arrested.
Q. Did he tell you that one of your officers had attempted to arrest him, and he refused to submit, because he had not a warrant?
A. No; I don't remember that--because he hadn't a warrant. No, sir. I never heard of this thing, either through Ammon or the policeman. I know nothing of it at all. I don't believe it.
Q. Do you remember Ammon telling you this?
A. No; I do not.
Q. That you said in reply that that was right, and for him to go ahead?
A. That's stuff. That ain't my style.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Allow no man to arrest him?
A. Oh, no, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At any time sent policemen to arrest Mr. Ammon, in preserving the peace?
A. I sent police down. I sent a note over to--I am not sure whether I sent the note over to see John McCauley, and he needed protection away down the road. I understood that the men would protect the property as long as they could, and when they were worn out and weary, they would send me word, and I would put out a police force to protect the city. This was several days after that. I did so. I sent them ten or twelve miles down the road. I had no authority to do it with the city police, but they agreed to pay, and have since paid, an improvised police force.
Q. The railroad men, although they were on a strike, did they show any disposition to be riotous or lawless, and destroy property?
A. Not at all, sir. They told me at this Sunday meeting, that they would do all they could to protect the property until the matters were settled in regard to wages, or something, with the company.
Q. Did you have any information, or make any arrests of them--interfere with them?
A. No, sir. They said some of the trains were going through which were stopped. I didn't make any arrest before. I cautioned them prudence and carefulness, and the danger and the risk they were running. The men pledged me what they would do to protect the property, and they did it manfully. One night they came up and said they were worn out, and I had the promise of a hundred men to come down from off the hill, and the men didn't come, and one of the messengers came from the railroad men, and I told him I was very sorry, I had been promised one hundred men, and they didn't come, and I would have to ask them to go back again that night, and they did it, though worn out, with a positive assurance from me that I would see that they were relieved the next day.
Q. Those were railroad men?
A. Those were railroad men.
Q. Ammon applied to you for assistance?
A. I never saw Ammon, but that one day.
Q. Never applied to you for assistance at all?
A. No, sir; I don't believe he did.
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W. D. Ross, _sworn_:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Allegheny City.
Q. What was your occupation in July last?
A. I was chief of police.
Q. Of Allegheny City?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you present during the conversation between Mayor Phillips and Robert Ammon, or Boss Ammon, or Bob Ammon, or whatever his name is?
A. I was present a part of the time. I was not there all of the time.
Q. Be kind enough to state what your recollection of the occurrence is?
A. Well, I was on the scene of action down there before Mayor Phillips came--had been called down. I think I was in Pittsburgh when the word came to the office that they wanted some men down to help disperse this riot--preventing cars from going out, and, I think, took fourteen or fifteen men down, and found a large crowd. I suppose there was two hundred or two hundred and fifty persons there, with an apparent determination to prevent the cars from going out, and showing the disposition manifested by them. They were armed with links and coupling pins, and a great many of them had clinkers. I saw that they were determined to make resistance, and I talked to Mr. Ross, the dispatcher, and told him to send down a car, and see if they could get through. I told Ammon we had come there for the purpose of stopping any violence that might be offered to the railroad employés, and we were informed that a crowd was there to offer resistance, from this side of the river--from Pittsburgh. His answer was, "Not a God damn bit of it." He says, "We are all employés of the Fort Wayne road. We have been discharged from the employment, and there are no Pittsburghers here, and we don't intend to let one pound of freight go out of this yard until our terms were complied with." And when I told him it was a pretty high-handed measure, or something like that, to take possession of the railroad and its property, and they would get into trouble, "Well," he said, "we might just as well die here as be starved to death," and he told me that they had this thing organized all over the country. It was not confined to Pittsburgh. It was North, South, East and West, and he had been in possession of the facts; and, says he, "I could stop it as quick as that," snapping his fingers, "by telegraphic dispatch that our terms are complied with." I had instructed a dispatch man to send down a locomotive and cars, and see if they could pass us, and when the cars came down Ammon stopped it, says, "Now is our time to strike," and he stepped up in front. The whole crowd rushed with him. They stopped the cars and mounted the locomotive, about two or three with him, and ordered them to return to the yard. They had no business coming out, and they reversed their engine and went back, and I saw there was no use in attempting to make an arrest. There was ten to one against us, and as determined to not be arrested as we would be to arrest them. When the cars ran back, I says, "Now, Ammon, you have taken possession of the road by violence, and we don't want to offer any resistance. The question will be determined by law whether you are going to hold it, or whether the railroad company is entitled to it." I thought the best way was to act with persuasion, and, says I, "You will be held responsible. If you have any right to do this, it will be a matter to be determined by law. We don't want to see any violence offered." I told Ross that I did not think it was worth our while to attempt to arrest them.
Q. Told whom?
A. Ross, the dispatcher in the yard. While we were talking about it, Mayor Phillips came down, and I went over to talk to the mayor. I left Ammon, and I think I remarked to the mayor that we were not able to do anything, and then Ammon came up and began to talk with him. The mayor told him he had need to look out, he would get into trouble. Something of that kind, that was the remark I heard. The mayor talked to him, that it was a high-handed measure, or something of that kind--I could not say positively what--something to that effect. I heard Ammon say he could not help it. He had told the mayor about the same as he told me, that he was in possession of the knowledge of the whole fact--how it was got up. He went to talk to him and I left them, and I left them while Ammon was relating his connection with the matter.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear the mayor tell Ammon that he should have charge of the lower part of the city of Allegheny?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear him tell him to resist any person that should attempt to arrest him?
A. No.
Q. Did not hear a conversation of that kind?
A. No; I talked to Ammon, and told him that he would be arrested; said I, "It is only a matter of time."
Q. You told Ammon he would be arrested?
A. I told him that he would be arrested. That it was only a matter of time. We didn't want any property destroyed, if we could prevent it.
Q. What was Ammon's reply to you when you told him he would be arrested?
A. He said he would die before he would be arrested--that was his determination, he said. It was a matter of life and death with the men, and they were willing to stand out--have their terms complied with before they would surrender.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you or any one else attempt to arrest him at any time during the riot?
A. No; I don't think we did do anything of the kind. I was down several times and saw them still in force there, but my object was more by persuasion to keep them from committing any overt acts of violence, further than to stop trains. I did not want to see any property destroyed or any lives lost, and I knew that the best policy was to counsel peace and keep from getting into a fight with so small a force as we had. There were more than twenty, I suppose, to one of us, and then, besides that, they had the sympathy of a number of the men that were with us--probably of our police officers. It was with a good deal of difficulty that they would even consent to go down. I had to threaten to put them off the force, but I concluded we had better counsel peace, and keep from getting into trouble with them by arresting them.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear any of the citizens have any conversation with the men when you were there, counseling them to hold it?
A. I did hear one of the citizens.
Q. Just state to this committee what that citizen said to Mr. Ammon?
A. That was a man by the name of Hahn. He made a remark of this kind; says he: "The railroad men are right." That was in Ammon's presence. I don't know whether he directed his remarks to Ammon or to me. Says he, "The railroad operators are right, and I will give as much as I can afford to sustain them and help them hold out."
Q. What did you say that man's name was?
A. His name is Hahn. He is a grocer.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say he has a grocery store?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where?
A. Down in the Sixth ward of Allegheny City. That was the only remark that I heard.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you know of any understanding between the railroad officials and this man Ammon, that he should run that railroad in their interest?
A. No, sir; I was down there--I won't be too certain what morning it was. They had taken possession of the telegraph office.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The strikers had?
A. The strikers had, and there appeared to be an arrangement to operate. The company wanted to put one operator in, and Mr. Ross was negotiating with a party--wanted to put in an operator to act in concert with the others, that all telegraphic dispatches that should come over the line might be under the supervision of the two, and the company would select one and they the other. That what business was done, running what little freight was allowed to come through the telegraph wires, would not be obstructed. And Ammon made that proposition. He got up on a barrel or bench of some kind at the telegraph office, and to the crowd he stated what proposition was made to them, that the railroad company wanted to put another man to operate along with others.
Q. In concert with the other operator?
A. Yes; and says he, "This is the proposition. Now we have got the matter in charge ourselves, and I think we are able to run it. We don't need the assistance of the railroad company." Says he, "It is for the men here to say whether they will accede to this proposition or not. For my part, I think we can control it ourselves, and if the strikers are in favor of accepting the proposition they would signify it by saying aye." They took a vote, and there was nobody said aye, and they took the negative, and they all cried no. He appeared to have control of the thing, and was running it, and all he had to do was to suggest or intimate what was desired, and they were ready to vote it.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Ammon and his party--did he accept the proposition from the railroad officials that they should have an operator?
A. No, sir; they would not accept it. They had the matter in charge, he said, and they would not accept it. They voted it down.
Q. Did Ammon say to this crowd, which he appeared to be a leader of--boss of--anything about the railroad officials asking him to run that road, take charge of it, and turn over the earnings of the railroad--railroad officials?
A. No; not that I heard of.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You speak of a proposition made by the railroad officials. Who made this proposition?
A. Well, it was Mr. Ross. That was their wanting to send some dispatches along on the road. Mr. Ross was dispatcher of the road, and they had taken possession of the railroad and telegraph office belonging to the road, and, as I understood it, put a telegraph operator of their own in there.
Q. Did he make this proposition of his own accord, or by the authority of the officials of the railroad company?
A. I could not say. I just said what Ammon said. Ammon mounted a bench, and he said the railroad company had made this proposition. Now, says he, "We have got charge of the concern, and we are capable of running it."
Q. Did you hear Mr. Ross make any proposition at all?
A. No, sir; It was Ammon's own statement.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did Ross have any conversation with you as chief of police in regard the situation of things there?
A. Yes, sir. He wanted me to do all I could to keep matters quiet--keep them from committing any overt acts of violence, if I could.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was there any disposition on the part of these men expressed to destroy property?
A. Well, I could not say that there was after I talked to them. The mayor had talked to them, &c. We counseled peace, and Ammon said, says he, "All that I am afraid of--we are going to hold the property. We will take care of it, we will protect it." I told him he was responsible for it. If he let it be destroyed the responsibility would rest upon him. I wanted to reason with him, as I seen he had control of the affairs.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Wanted him to realize the situation?
A. Realize the situation they were in, and make a more weighty responsibility on them, for having taken it by force, if they would let it be destroyed. I told him so. Says he, "All I am afraid of is, when the hands stop work, they will hang around these damned doggeries and get drunk, and come in here and create a disturbance, and lead the thing into trouble." Says he, "If we just stopped them, I would not be a bit afraid of any property being burned." I told them they had just as good a right to stop doggeries as they had to stop a railroad, the rule would work both ways. If you could take possession of one class of property, why not take possession of the other. I talked with them, and I concluded I would go around and notify the saloons to stop myself. I saw it was the best we could do under the circumstances, and we did notify them, and they obeyed and stopped until the next Monday or Tuesday afterwards. I used a little strategy with them. I told them the mayor had instructed me to stop them, and under the law if they did anything to aid, abet, or encourage riot, they were responsible; that the sale of liquor might have that tendency, and they appeared to be cautious, and shut up their places.
Q. They shut up because you told them the mayor had ordered them; it was not this Boss Ammon?
A. No, sir; it was not Boss Ammon, it was Mayor Phillips and me had talked about that, and thought best to keep down riot in every form we could, under the excited state of affairs.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did Ammon and his men who were acting in concert with them, make any effort to compel saloons from selling whisky?
A. No, sir; I don't think he did anything at all in the matter.
Q. You say that Mr. Ammon remarked, that he could stop all this rioting and strike by a single dispatch, if their terms were complied with. Did he say what those terms were?
A. He was going on to state the terms at the time Mayor Phillips came down, and the mayor arriving there he hadn't got through with his statement. So far as his statement to me was concerned it was, that the men that had been discharged would all be returned to their positions again, and re-instated at the old wages, that double-headers should be taken off--he was going on making a statement of this kind when Mayor Phillips arrived and interrupted him. I don't know what all he would have stated. It was a part of it, that the men should all be re-instated that had been discharged, at their former wages, with an assurance that they would remain, and double-headers taken off the road.
Q. Did your force act in concert with the strikers in protecting the property of the Fort Wayne railroad?
A. We acted under the advice of Mayor Phillips, and we acted in concert, as a matter of course, in protecting property. We sent down men to watch the property and to keep it from being stolen.
Q. You assisted the railroad strikers, or they did so, in protecting the property?
A. They appeared to exercise a guard over it for one or two nights. I guess we had taken charge of the freight trains and set a watch over them, and then, when they gave them up we took charge of them. We sent police down, thirty or forty police, along the road where they had run them out to watch the property, and to keep it from being stolen and carried away.
Q. Was it a general understanding between your police force and these railroad men that you would assist each other in stopping any violence or destruction of property?
A. After they had----
Q. Taken possession of it?
A. Yes; there was an understanding, so far as I understood the situation of the case, the property had to be protected, and they were not able to protect it themselves, and they could not stand it, and when they were not able we protected it, and we had policemen down there by direction of the railroad company, to watch the property also. Under the circumstances we were placed in, we were disposed to do the best we could.
Q. Regardless of who it was that helped to protect the property?
A. Yes; that was the way I understand it.
Q. Coöperate with anybody that was peaceably inclined to assist you?
A. Exactly; and let the consequences follow.
At this point the sub-committee adjourned, until three o'clock, this afternoon.
PITTSBURGH, _April 6, 1878_.
The sub-committee met at three o'clock, at the orphan's court room, pursuant to adjournment. Mr. Reyburn in the chair. Present, Messrs. Reyburn, Torbert, Yutzy, and Englebert.
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John I. Nevin, _sworn_:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where is your residence and what is your occupation?
A. My residence is Sewickley, and editor of the Leader.
Q. Were you editor of the _Leader_ at the time of the railroad strike in July last?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you editor from the 19th to the 24th July?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Be kind enough to look at these papers during that time, and see if they are your----
A. If I was editor.
Q. Take from the 19th of July on, and take the editorials--whether they were your articles?
Witness identifies editorial headed "Talk of the Desperate," July 20; also, editorial headed "No Violence." July 21; also, editorial headed "Fatal Rashness," July 22; also, editorial headed "Law and Order," second edition, July 23.
The editorials are as follows:
[Leader, July 20.]
THE TALK OF THE DESPERATE.
"This may be the beginning of a great civil war in this country, between labor and capital, that is bound to come. It only needs that the strikers at Martinsburg, or here, or elsewhere, should boldly attack and rout the troops sent to quell them--and they could easily do it if they tried--to set the spark to the magazine, and the explosion would follow at once. The workingmen everywhere, and of all classes of trade, are in the fullest sympathy with the strikers, and only waiting to see whether they are in earnest enough to fight for their rights. They would all join and help them, the moment an actual conflict took place. Against such an uprising, what would capital have to oppose? The militia? Why, have not we seen how the militia at Martinsburg fraternized with the mob; how at Wheeling only thirty men responded to the Governor's call to arms; how Mr. Garrett, in his appeal to the President, acknowledges that the militia is in such full sympathy with the strikers that they were of no use at all? And do not we see, to-day, in the ridiculous response to the calls upon the Grays to turn out--a corporal's guard--that the militia is of no more use here? The Governor, with his proclamations, may call and call, but the laboring people, who mostly constitute the militia, will not take up arms to put down their brethren. Will capital, then, rely on the United States army? Pshaw! These ten or fifteen thousand men, available men, would be swept from our path like leaves in the whirlwind. The workingmen of this country can capture and hold it, if they will only stick together, and it looks as if they were going to, this time, sure."