Chapter 3

Burke, in his _Peerage_, mentions that Henry Vansittart, father of Lord Bexley, was governor of Bengal (circa 1770), and that he married Amelia Morse, daughter of Nicolas Morse, governor of Madras.

It would therefore appear that this said Nicolas Morse was a descendant of General Ireton. I wish to ascertain if this assumption be correct; and, if correct, when and how the families of Morse and Ireton became connected? If any of your correspondents can furnish information on this {186} subject, or acquaint me where I can find any account or pedigree of the Morse family, I shall feel much indebted to them.

PURSUIVANT.

_Earl of Shaftesbury._--I have read with great interest Lord Shaftesbury's letter to Le Clerc, published in No. 67. May I ask your correspondents JANUS DOUSA and Professor des Amories VAN DER HOVEN, whether the Remonstrants' library of Amsterdam contains any papers relating to the first Earl of Shaftesbury, which might have been sent by the third Earl to Le Clerc; and whether any notices or traditions remain in Amsterdam of the first Lord Shaftesbury's residence and death in that city? Any information relative to the first Earl of Shaftesbury will greatly oblige.

CH.

_Family of Peyton._--Admiral Joseph Peyton [Post-Captain, December 2, 1757--Admiral, 1787--ob. 1804] was Admiral's First Captain in the fleet under Darby, at the relief of Gibraltar, 1781. He was son of Commodore Edward Peyton [Post-Captain, April 4, 1740], who is supposed to have gone over from England, and settled in America, and there to have died. I should be very glad of further particulars of these persons. Are my dates correct? How is this branch of the family (lately represented by John Joseph Peyton, Esq., of Wakehurst, who married a daughter of Sir East Clayton East, Bart., and died in 1844, leaving four children minors) connected with the Baronets Peyton, of Iselham, or Dodington? Who was the father of the above Commodore? It may aid the inquiry to mention that this branch is related to the Grenfell family: William Peyton, second son of the above Admiral Joseph, having married a first cousin of Pascoe Grenfell, Esq., M.P. for Great Marlow (who died in 1833).

ACHE.

"_La Rose nait en un Moment._"--I wish to learn the name of the author of the following verses, and where they are to be found. Any of your correspondents who can inform me shall receive my sincere thanks:--

"La Rose nait en un moment, En un moment elle est flêtrie; Mais ce que pour vous mon coeur sent, Ne finira qu'avec ma vie."

T. H. K.

Malew, Man.

_John Collard the Logician._--Could any of your correspondents tell me where I could find any account of _John Collard_, who wrote three treatises on Logic:--The first, under the name of _N. Dralloc_ (his name reversed), _Epitome of Logic_, Johnson, St. Paul's Church Yard, 1795; in his own name, _Essentials of Logic_, Johnson, 1796; and in 1799, the _Praxis of Logic_. He is mentioned as _Dralloc_ by Whately and Kirwan; but nobody seems to have known him as _Collard_ but Levi Hedge, the American writer on that subject. I made inquiry, some forty years ago, and was informed that he lived at Birmingham, was a chairmaker by profession, and devoted much of his time to chemistry; that he was known to and esteemed by Dr. Parr; and that he was then dead.

At the close of his preface to his _Praxis_ he says,--

"And let me inform the reader also, that this work was not composed in the pleasant tranquillity of retirement, but under such untoward circumstances, that the mind was subject to continual interruptions and vexatious distraction."

Then he adds,--

"I have but little doubt but this _Praxis_ will, at some future period, find its way into the schools; and though critics should at present condemn what they have either no patience or inclination to examine, I feel myself happy in contemplating, that after I am mouldered to dust, it may assist our reason in this most essential part."

B. G.

Feb. 20. 1851.

_Traherne's Sheriffs of Glamorgan._--Could any of your readers tell me where I might see a copy of _A List of the Sheriffs of County Glamorgan_, printed (privately?) by Rev. J. M. Traherne? I have searched the libraries of the British Museum, the Athenæum Club, and the Bodleian at Oxford, in vain.

EDMOND W.

_Haybands in Seals._--I have, in a small collection of Sussex deeds, two which present the following peculiarity: they have the usual slip of parchment and lump of wax pendant from the lower edge, but the wax, instead of bearing an armorial figure, a merchant's mark, or any other of the numerous devices formerly employed in the authentication of deeds instead of one's chirograph, has neatly inserted into it a small wreath composed of two or three stalks of grass (or rather hay) carefully plaited, and forming a circle somewhat less in diameter than a shilling. The deeds, which were executed in the time of Henry the Seventh, relate to the transfer of small landed properties. I have no doubt that this diminutive _hayband_ was the distinctive mark of a grazier or husbandman who did not consider his social status sufficient to warrant the use of a more regular device by way of seal. I have seen a few others connected with the same county, and, if I recollect rightly, of a somewhat earlier date. I shall be glad to ascertain whether this curious practice was in use in other parts of England.

M. A. LOWER.

Lewes.

_Edmund Prideaux, and the First Post-office._--Polwhele, in his _History of Cornwall_, says, p. 139.:

"To our countryman Edmund Prideaux we owe the regular establishment of the Post-office."

{187}

He says again, p. 144.:

"Edmund Prideaux, Attorney-General to Oliver Cromwell, and _Inventor_ of the Post-office."

Now the Edmund spoken of as Attorney-General, was of Ford Abbey, in Devonshire, and second son of Sir Edmund Prideaux, of Netherton, in the said county, therefore could not be one of the Cornish branch.

Query No. 1. Who was the Edmund Prideaux, his countryman, that regularly established the Post-office?

Query No. 2. How were letters circulated before his time?

Query No. 3. Was Edmund Prideaux the Attorney-General, the inventor of the Post-office, as he states; if not, who was?

Query No. 4. Has any life of Edmund Prideaux as Attorney-General been published, or is any account of him to be found in any work?

G. P. P.

_William Tell Legend._--Could any of your readers tell me the true origin of the William Tell apple story? I find the same story told of--

(1.) Egil, the father of the famous smith Wayland, who was instructed in the art of forging metals by two dwarfs of the mountain of Kallova. (Depping, _Mém. de la Société des Antiquaires de France_, tom. v. pp. 223. 229.)

(2.) Saxo Grammaticus, who wrote nearly a century before Tell, tells nearly the same story of one Toko, who killed Harold.

(3.) "There was a souldier called Pumher, who, daily through witchcraft, killed three of his enemies. This was he who shot at a pennie on his son's head, and made ready another arrow to have slain the Duke Remgrave (? Rheingraf), who commanded it." (Reginald Scot, 1584.)

(4.) And Adam Bell, Clym of the Clough, and William of Cloudeslie.

G. H. R.

_Arms of Cottons buried in Landwade Church, &c._ (Vol. iii., p. 39.).--Will JONATHAN OLDBUCK, JUN., oblige me by describing the family coat-armour borne by the Cottons mentioned in his Note? It may facilitate his inquiry, in which, by the way, I am much interested.

R. W. C.

_Sir George Buc's Treatise on the Stage._--What has become of this MS.? Sir George Buc mentions it in _The Third University of England_, appended to Stowe's _Annals_, ed. 1631, p. 1082.--

"Of this art [the dramatic] have written largely _Petrus Victorius_, &c.--as it were in vaine for me to say anything of the art; besides, that _I have written thereof a particular treatise_."

If this manuscript could be discovered, it would doubtless throw considerable light upon the Elizabethan drama.

EDWARD F. RIMBAULT.

_A Cracowe Pike_ (Vol. iii., p. 118.).--Since I sent you the Query respecting a _Cracowe Pike_, I have found that I was wrong in supposing it to be a weapon or spear: for _Cracowe Pikes_ was the name given to the preposterous "piked shoes," which were fashionable in the reign of Richard II., and which were so long in the toes that it was necessary to tie them with chains to the knee, in order to render it possible for the wearer to walk. Stowe, in his _Chronicle_, tells us that this extravagant fashion was brought in by Anne of Bohemia, Queen of Richard II. But why were they called _Cracowe_ pikes?

I. H. T.

_St. Thomas of Trunnions._--Who was this saint, and why is he frequently mentioned in connexion with onions?

"Nay softe, my maisters, by _Saincte Thomas of Trunions_, I am not disposed to buy of your _onions_." _Apius and Virginia_, 1575.

"And you that delight in trulls and minions, Come buy my four ropes of hard _S. Thomas's onions_." _The Hog hath lost his Pearl_, 1614.

"Buy my rope of onions--white _St. Thomas's onions_," was one of the cries of London in the seventeenth century.

EDWARD F. RIMBAULT.

_Paper-mill near Stevenage_ (Vol. ii., p. 473.).--In your number for December 14, 1850, one of your correspondents, referring to Bartholomeus _de Prop. Rerum_, mentions a paper-mill near Stevenage, in the county of Hertford, as being probably the earliest, or one of the earliest, established in England. I should feel much obliged if your correspondent, through the medium of your pages, would favour me with any further particulars on this subject; especially as to the site of this mill, there being no stream within some miles of Stevenage capable of turning a mill. I have been unable to find any account of this mill in either of the county histories.

HERTFORDIENSIS.

_Mounds, Munts, Mounts._--In the parish register of Maresfield in Sussex, there is an entry recording the surrender of a house and three acres of land, called the "Mounds," in 1574, to the use of the parish; and in the churchwardens' accounts at Rye, about the same time, it is stated that the church of Rye was entitled to a rent from certain lands called "Mounts." In Jevington, too, there are lands belonging to the Earl of Liverpool called Munts or Mounts, but whether at any time belonging to the church, I am unable to say. Any information as to the meaning of the word, or account of its occurring elsewhere, will much oblige

R. W. B.

_Church Chests._--A representation of two knights engaged in combat is sometimes found on ancient church chests. Can any one explain the meaning of it? Examples occur at Harty Chapel, Kent, and Burgate, Suffolk. The former is mentioned in the _Glossary of Architecture_, and described as a carving: the latter is painted only, {188} and one of the knights is effaced: the other is apparently being unhorsed; he wears a jupon embroidered in red, and the camail, &c., of the time of Richard II.: a small shield is held in his left hand: his horse stoops its head, apparently to water, through which it is slowly pacing. Is this a subject from the legend of some saint, or from one of the popular romances of the middle ages? Are any other examples known?

C. R. M.

_The Cross-bill._--Is "The Legend of the Cross-bill," translated from Julius Mosen by Longfellow, a genuine early tradition, or only a fiction of the poet?

2. Is the Cross-bill considered in any country as a sacred bird? and was it ever so used in architectural decoration, illumination, or any other works of sacred art?

3. What is the earliest record on evidence of the Cross-bill being known in England?

H. G. T.

Launceston.

_Iovanni Volpe._--Can any of your readers supply a notice of IOVANNI VOLPE, mentioned in a MS. nearly cotemporary to have been

"An Italian doctor, famous in Queen Elizabeth's time, who went with George Earl of Cumberland most of his sea voyages, and was with him at the taking of Portorico?"

Another MS., apparently of the date of James I., describes him as "physician to Queen Elizabeth."

He had a daughter, Frances, widow of Richard Evers, Esq. ("of the family of Evers of Coventry"), who married, 2d November, 1601, Richard Hughes, Esq., then a younger son, but eventually representative, of the ancient house of Gwerclas and Cymmer-yn-Edeirnion, in Merionethshire, and died 29th June, 1636.

M. N. O.

_Auriga._--How comes the Latin word AURIGA to mean "a charioteer?"

VARRO.

_To speak in Lutestring._--1. Philo-Junius--that is, Junius himself--in the 47th Letter, writes:

"I was led to trouble you with these observations by a passage which, _to speak in lutestring_, I met with this morning, in the course of my reading."

Had the expression in Italics been used before by any one?

2. In the 56th Letter, addressed to the Duke of Grafton, Junius asks:

"Is the union of _Blifil_ and _Black George_ no longer a romance?"

What part of that story is here referred to?

VARRO.

"_Lavora, come se tu," &c._--In Bohn's edition of Jeremy Taylor's _Holy Living and Dying_, I observe in the notes several Italian sentences, mostly couplets or proverbs. One peculiarly struck me: and I should feel obliged if any of your readers could tell me whence it was taken, name of author, &c. The couplet runs thus (Vide p. 182. of the work):--

"Lavora, come se tu avessi a camper ogni hora: Adora, come se tu avessi a morir allora."

Indeed it would not be amiss, if _all_ the notes were marked with authors' names or other reference, as I find some few of the Latin quotations as well as the Greek, and _all_ the Italian ones, require a godfather.

W. H. P.

_Tomb of Chaucer._--Are any of the existing English families descended from the poet Chaucer? If so, might they not fairly be applied to for a contribution to the proposed restoration of his tomb? His son Thomas Chaucer left an heiress, married to De la Pole, Duke of Suffolk; but I have not the means of ascertaining whether any of their posterity are extant.

C. R. M.

_Family of Clench._--Can any of your readers supply me with the parentage and family of _Bruin Clench_ of St. Martin's in the Fields, citizen of London? He married Catharine, daughter of William Hippesley, Esq., of Throughley, in Edburton, co. Sussex; and was living in 1686. His christian name does not appear in the pedigrees of the Clinche or Clench family of Bealings and Holbrook, co. Suffolk, in the _Heralds' Visitations_, in the British Museum. His daughter married Roger Donne, Esq., of Ludham, co. Norfolk, and was the maternal grandmother of the poet Cowper.

C. R. M.

* * * * *

Replies.

CRANMER'S DESCENDANTS.

(Vol. iii., p. 8.)

Your correspondent may be interested to know, that Sir Anthony Chester, Bart., of Chichley, co. Bucks, married, May 21, 1657, Mary, dau. of Samuel Cranmer, Esq., alderman of London, and sister to Sir Cæsar Cranmer, Kt., of Ashwell, Bucks. This Samuel Cranmer was traditionally the last male heir of the eldest of Cranmer's sons; his descent is, I believe, stated in general terms in the epitaphs of Lady Chester, at Chichley, and Sir Cæsar Cranmer, at Ashwell. He was a great London brewer by trade, and married his cousin Mary (sister of Thomas Wood, Bishop of Coventry and Lichfield, and Sir Henry Wood, Bart., of the Board of Green Cloth), dau. of Thomas Wood, Esq., of Hackney, by his wife ---- Cranmer. They had only two children, and it would appear from Harleian MS. No. 1476. fo. 419., which omits all mention of Sir Cæsar, that he died in his father's lifetime, and that Lady Chester was sole heiress to this branch of the Cranmers.

There are two brief pedigrees I have seen of these Cranmers, one in Harl. MS. 1476. above {189} mentioned, the other in Philipot's _Catalogue of Knights_; but neither of them goes so far as to connect them with the archbishop, or even with the Nottinghamshire family; for they both begin with Samuel Cranmer's grandfather, who is described of Alcester, co. Warwick. Now the connexion is certain: could one of your readers supply me with the wanting links? Is it possible that they omit all mention of the archbishop on account of the prejudice mentioned by your correspondent; being able to supply the three generations necessary to gentility without him?

I am obliged to write without any books of reference, or I would have consulted the epitaphs in question again.

R. E. W.

I am afraid that my quotations from memory, in my letter of Saturday, were _not exactly correct_; for on examining Lipscomb's _Buckinghamshire_ to-day, I find that it is stated (vol. iv. pp. 4-7.) on the monument of Samuel Cranmer at _Astwood Bury_, that he was "descended in a direct line from Richard Cranmer, elder brother to Thomas, archbishop of Canterbury;" and that it was found, on an inquisition held on April 7, 1640, that his son and heir Cæsar Cranmer (called on the monument "Sir Cæsar Wood At^e Cranmer, Kt.") was his heir at six years of age. This Cæsar was knighted by Charles II., and died unmarried; so that his sister, Lady Chester, was evidently the representative of this branch of the Cranmer family.

Now, with regard to this statement on the monument, in the first place it is discrepant with Lady Chester's epitaph at Chichley, which (Lipscomb's _Bucks_, vol. iv. p. 97.) expressly declares that she derived her descent from the archbishop. In the next place it appears from Thoroton's _Notts_, that the archbishop had no elder brother named Richard. His elder brother's name was John; who by Joan, dau. of John Frechevill, Esq., had two sons, Thomas and _Richard_. Could this be the Richard alluded to? In the third place, in neither of the pedigrees alluded to is there given any connexion with the family of Cranmer of Aslacton. And, lastly, it is opposed to the uniform tradition of the family. Now, if any of your readers can clear up this difficulty, or will refer me to any other pedigree of the Cranmers, I shall feel extremely obliged to him.

With the exception of the points now noticed, my former letter was perfectly correct, and may be relied on in every respect.

I may mention that these Cranmers were from Warwickshire. The monument states that Samuel Cranmer was born at "Aulcester" in that county, "about the year 1575."

R. E. W.

* * * * *

DUTCH POPULAR SONG-BOOK.

(Vol. iii., p. 22.)

The second edition of the song-book mentioned by the HERMIT OF HOLYPORT must have been published between 1781 and 1810, as the many popular works printed for S. and W. Koene may testify. In 1798 they lived on the Linde gracht, but shifted afterwards their dwelling-place to the Boomstraat. For the above information--about a trifle, interesting enough to call a _hermit_ from his _memento-mori_ cogitations--I am indebted to the kindness of Mr. J. J. NIEUWENHUYZEN.

But, alas! what can I, the man with a _borrowed name_ and borrowed learning, say in reply to the first Query of the busy anchorite? He will believe me, when I tell his reverence that I am _not_ JANUS DOUSA. What's in the name, that I could choose it? Must I confess? A token of grateful remembrance; the only means of making myself known to a British friend of my youth, but for whom I would perhaps never have enjoyed MR. HERMIT'S valuable contributions--the medium, in short, of being recognised incognito. Will this do? Or must I say, copying a generous correspondent of "NOTES AND QUERIES,"--Spare my blushes, I am

J. H. VAN LENNEP.

Amsterdam, Feb. 25. 1851.

* * * * *

BARONS OF HUGH LUPUS.

(Vol. iii., p. 87.)

Your correspondent P. asks for information respecting the families and descendants of William Malbank and Bigod de Loges, two of the Barons of Hugh Lupus, Earl of Chester, whose signatures are affixed to the charter of foundation of St. Werburgh's Abbey at Chester.

Of the descendants of William Malbank I can learn nothing; but it appears from the MS. catalogue of the Norman nobility before the Conquest, that Roger and Robert de Loges possessed lordships in the district of Coutances in Normandy. One at least, Roger, must have accompanied the Conqueror to England (and his name appears in the roll of Battle Abbey as given by Fox), for we find that he held lands in Horley and Burstowe in Surrey. His widow, Gunuld de Loges, held the manor of Guiting in Gloucestershire of King William; and in the year 1090 she gave two hides of land to the monastery of Gloucester to pray for the soul of her husband. Roger had two sons, Roger and Bigod, or, as he is sometimes called, Robert. The former inherited the lands in Surrey. One of his descendants (probably his great-grandson) was high sheriff of Surrey and Sussex in the years 1267, 1268, and 1269. His son Roger de Loges owned lands and tenements in Horley, called La Bokland, which he sold to the Abbot of {190} Chertsea. His successor, John de Logge of Burstowe, witnessed in the tenth year of Edward II. a deed relating to the transfer of land in Hadresham, Surrey. The name became gradually corrupted to Lodge.

To return to the subject of inquiry, Bigod de Loges--

"held five tenements in Sow of the Earl of Chester, by the service of conducting the said earl towards the king's court through the midst of the forest of Cannock, meeting him at Rotford bridge upon his coming, and at Hopwas bridge on his return. In which forest the earl might, if he pleased, kill a deer at his coming, and another at his going back: giving unto Loges each time he should so attend him a barbed arrow. Hugo de Loges granted to William Bagot all his lands in Sow, to hold of him the said Hugo and his heirs, by the payment of a pair of white gloves at the feast of St. Michael yearly."--Dugdale.

Bigod de Loges had two sons, Hugo and Odardus:

"Odardus de Loges was infeoffed by Ranulphus de Meschines, Earl of Chester, in the baronies of Stanyton, Wigton, Doudryt, Waverton, Blencoyd, and Kirkbride, in the county of Cumberland; and the said Odardus built Wigton church and endowed it. He lived until King John's time. Henry I. confirmed the grant of the barony to him, by which it is probable that he lived a hundred years. He had issue Adam. Adam had issue Odard, the lord, whose son and heir, Adam the Second, died without issue, and Odard the Fourth likewise," &c.--Denton's _MS._

Of the branch settled in Staffordshire and Warwickshire--

"Hugo de Loges married, tempo Richard I., Margerie, daughter and heiress of Robert de Brok. By this marriage Hugo became possessed of the manor of Casterton in Warwickshire. He was forester of Cannock chace. He had issue Hugo de Loges, of Chesterton, whose son and heir, Sir Richard de Loges, died 21st of Edward I. Sir Richard had issue two sons, Richard and Hugo. The eldest, Richard of Chesterton, left issue an only daughter, Elizabeth, married to Nicholas de Warwick. The issue of this marriage was John de Warwick, whose daughter and heiress, Eleonora, married Sir John de Peto, and brought the manor of Chesterton into that family."--Dugdale.

M. J. T.

* * * * *

SHAKSPEARE'S "ANTONY AND CLEOPATRA."

(Vol. iii., p. 139.)

The scene in _Antony and Cleopatra_ contains two expressions which are in _Henry VIII._--

"Learn this, Silius." "Learn this, brother."--_Hen. VIII._

"The Captain's captain." "To be her Mistress' mistress, the Queen's queen."--_Hen. VIII._

The first of these passages is in a scene in _Henry VIII._, which MR. HICKSON gives to Fletcher (and of which, by-the-bye, it may be observed, that, like the scene in _Antony and Cleopatra_, it has nothing to do with the business of the play). The other is in a scene which he gives to Shakspeare.