Chapter 12

His family and connexions in Ireland and their weight is the first thing he states. To this I gave the answer of non-residence. He says that he always resides during the Parliament winter; that he has a house and establishment both in Dublin and in the country; and that he is more a resident than Lord Clanricarde or Lord Courtown. I then stated the impossibility of increasing the number, which had been a particular object with the King. His solution to that was, that when the King named sixteen, he certainly did not mean to include himself; and that the Thistle is twelve without the Sovereign. He proposes therefore that, as he has always been one of those talked of for it, and _as his friends make it_ a point with him to apply, you should make it sixteen without the King, by adding his name.

You will therefore be so good as either to send him from yourself, or to commission me to write to him, a formal answer, _tel qu'il vous plaira_.

In general, the list is approved; but they object to the insertion of Lord Bechoe's name, and to the omission of Lord Meath's.

Fox and his people are very industrious in turning it into ridicule, by which I should think they would not increase their Irish popularity. And what is ridiculous, is that at the same time the Duke of Portland is taking pains to persuade all Irishmen that he meant to have done the same if he had staid long enough.

I have seen Edmonson, who has this day given me in a proposal, which you will not think much more moderate than you did his bill for the escutcheons (which, by the bye, he says you have never paid).

I should think the twenty guineas per Knight for the superintendence might very well be reduced to giving him _pro tempore_, and for this installation only, one of the heralds' places, in lieu of all travelling expenses and allowances. The Painters' Bill, as they call it, is fixed for the Bath, and might, I should think, reasonably be given to him at the same rate.

He is making out copies of the drawings; one or two alterations he has suggested which strike me. The first is the knots in the Collar. If they are gold, and the harp likewise, the whole will look, I think, too like a Lord Mayor's gold chain, and will make no show; nothing being more dull to the eye than plain gold. He wants to have them enamelled, so as to be like the strings and tassels of the mantle.

He will also send a drawing of the Badge, with the wreath of trefoil drawn in single leaves, instead of the full wreath, which looks, as he says truly, like a civic crown or oak garland. But this you will see in the drawing, and which looks best.

I wish that there was a statute to fix the plates of the Knights to remain in the stall in which they were first installed. In the chapel at Windsor they are obliged now to put them up loose, in order to their being removed; the consequence is, that they are frequently lost. Besides, the plates of the first sixteen might then be fixed in the centre of each stall as a mark of distinction for the founders.

In the Garter there are no plates in the Sovereign's stall. I should think that the Grand Master at each installation might be allowed to put up his, as the banner must of course always be the Sovereign's.

Edmonson proposes that he should have one of each article of the Painters' Bill made here, to carry with him as a pattern. If you see no objection, he might do Mornington's for this purpose. An advantage might be given to Edmonson by authorizing him to publish an account of the ceremony, with the arms and pedigrees of the Knights, &c., &c., to which they would of course subscribe.

Is the jewellery--I mean collars and badges--to be done in Ireland? I believe there is no workmanship at all of that sort there.

Townshend will, I believe, send the approbation to-night. It has waited upon an idea of the Prince of Wales, who gave it out to everybody that he had sent in to the King to ask for it.[1] This was the day after the King had given his approbation to the list, and named Prince Edward. I thought it right to wait a day or two, to know if the King would speak to him about it. He never has; and Townshend is to mention the Order again to-day, and send the approbation to night or to-morrow. Adieu.

Ever yours, W. W. G.

[Footnote 1: The Premier did ask for it, but was refused.]

The "Coalition Administration" was now beginning to "loom" dimly in the distance. Various changes were whispered, and from day to day new reports got abroad of negotiations with Lord North's party. The first step towards the consummation of an alliance may be said to have been already taken when Townshend, abandoning the traditions of his party, told Mr. Grenville that he saw no reason for proscribing all Lord North's people from _office_, although he objected to giving them any share in the _Government_. The meaning of this ingenious distinction is clear. The Administration was tottering, and the only chance they saw of strengthening their position was to buy off the opposition of the followers of the late Cabinet. To swamp their opponents and at the same time keep the actual power in their own hands, was a piece of strategy which might be expected from the general character of Lord Shelburne's tactics. But it failed, and failed conspicuously. Mr. Grenville discerned clearly the danger of this clever plan, from which he could anticipate no other result than that of sapping the foundations of the existing Government. In the letters that follow we have a close running commentary on the state of parties, and the rumours that hourly agitated the public mind during this interval of intestine struggle. Mr. Grenville considered the circumstances of the Ministry hopeless, as, we gather from his previous communications, he appears to have done all throughout. Their conduct upon the Irish Bill, which was still destined to entail division and uneasiness, revealed to him the fatal want of unity, earnestness and activity in their councils; and even if they had had no perils to guard against from without, he saw sources of weakness enough within the Cabinet itself to destroy all confidence in their stability. There were only two parties from whose ranks the Ministry could be recruited, and these two had hitherto acted in public life with the fiercest animosity towards each other. The attempts that were made to win over some of Lord North's adherents having failed, the only alternative left was to apply to Fox. That this application was actually made, and made in person by Pitt, who, with a thorough knowledge of the character of Fox, believed that the most direct mode of ascertaining his sentiments was not only the most honourable to both, but the most likely to attain its end, either by a candid refusal or immediate acceptance, is here authoritatively stated by Mr. Grenville. Fox's answer is conclusive as to the real obstacle which impeded all negotiation. While Lord Shelburne was in office nothing could be done: no party would consent to coalesce with him. The humiliating condition to which he had lowered the Administration, is shown in the straits to which it was now reduced--seeking support alternately from opposite parties, and finding its offers rejected in turn by both.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Feb. 6th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

Townshend's messenger is nowhere, waiting for this letter; and as, by a mistake, I was not till now informed of his going to-night, I have only time to write a few lines, just to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 2nd instant, and to say a very little upon the singular situation of things here.

To-day, when I delivered your despatches to Townshend, I entered into a conversation with him on this subject, saying that you trusted to him for information, &c., &c. He perfectly agreed with me in thinking that it could not go on without some new arrangement of some sort or other. At the same time, he said that he knew of no negotiation going on with Lord North. That there was no truth in the reports which have circulated so much that Jenkinson was to be Chancellor of the Exchequer, Pitt Secretary, and himself Paymaster. That he had good reason to believe that there had been a negotiation between Lord North and Fox, but that it was now off. That, for his own part, he saw no reason for proscribing all Lord North's people from _office_, but he should not like to see them in _Government_.

Upon this text it is not very easy to reason. The prevailing idea certainly is that Lord Shelburne is making overtures to Lord North. Whether those are to go to Cabinet arrangement, or only to provision for Lord North's family and offices of emolument, &c., for George North, &c., &c., I do not know; if the former, it is clear that he keeps it from the knowledge both of Townshend and Pitt; the latter, I have very good reason to believe, would object to it.

In the meantime a storm is brewing, and will probably burst when the preliminaries come to be considered, unless some event takes place before that time. Lord Keppel and the Duke of Richmond both assign the badness of the peace for their reason for resigning. Lord Carlisle does the same, but I understand his great objection goes to the Loyalists, to whom he considered his personal honour engaged. The report of the day is, that the Duke of Grafton has followed their example. Of this Townshend said not one word to me, nor did I hear it till after I had seen him. This rather makes me disinclined to believe it, though his Grace has certainly had a kind of flirtation with Fox for some days past.

Upon the whole, the only thing which I can at all venture to pronounce with certainty, is that it cannot do as it is; and that if Fox's people continue, as I believe they will, to stand aloof, they must either all resign, or fill up the vacancies as fast as they occur, day after day, with Lord North's people. _En quo discordia cives prodaxit miseros._

In the case of an immediate resignation, Lord North's people will come in by storm (Fox not having the least chance): in that of gradual admission, they will sap the Government by degrees. In either case, there is too much reason to fear the return of the old system of corruption on one side, and faction on the other.

With regard to the peace, I own I cannot think it so bad, all things considered. If one measures it by an _uti possidetis_, it is surely advantageous; and I see no reason for being at all confident that another campaign would have put us in a better situation to negotiate. In this line, I had intended to have stated my ideas on the day of debate in the House of Commons; but I am deterred by reading your opinions, and by a fear, I believe too well grounded, that you will take an active part the other way; and I cannot reconcile myself to the appearance of a Scotch family. If it had not been for this, I think it would have had a handsome appearance in the hour of their distress, and would not have had a bad effect in Ireland; if, indeed, we are any longer interested there, which I begin to doubt. Adieu, my dearest brother.

Ever most affectionately yours, W. W. G.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Feb. 8th, 1783, Nine, P.M.

My dear Brother,

I wrote to you this morning an account, which you will receive at the same time with this letter, of a conversation with Lord Bellamont. I little thought, at that time, that I should now have one of so different a nature to detail to you, which I had, just before dinner, with Percy. He said, that although he might be thought officious in coming to speak to me upon a subject, upon which it had not been thought proper to make him any communication, yet he could not help saying that he thought it inconsistent with his duty to you, &c., &c., not to state to me that he had last night procured from the House of Commons a copy of the Bill proposed; and that he was fully convinced that, so far from answering the purpose intended by it, the country would be thrown by it into a much greater flame than ever. I asked him to state his objections; he said they would be best seen by the form which he had drawn up, and would leave with me for my consideration.

I did not detail to him the many objections which occur to me upon his Bill, and particularly that most insuperable difficulty of its asserting what the right now is, in contradiction to the declared opinion of almost every lawyer in this country. But I said, in general terms, that the Bill in question had been drawn up with great consideration; and that it was a matter of infinite delicacy, on account of the great variety of prejudices to be encountered on both sides of the water. He asked if this was the form which had been sent to you, and if you had consulted people there upon it. To this I could not but answer that I understood you had, though you do not say a word to me upon that subject, and it is a question which will most certainly be asked in the House of Commons.

This unexpected difficulty has made me determine to postpone the second reading of the Bill till I have an answer to this letter, unless I should in the meantime receive one from you perfectly approving, and stating the opinions of people in Ireland as agreeing with yours upon it.

It is certainly to be observed, that the whole of this difficulty has arisen from want of communication from Ministry to you. Because, if you had known that they were determined to admit no recognition of the existing right, it would have been well worth considering whether anything short of that would not be worse than as it was before. Instead of that, they receive your resolutions and your Bill, and then pledge themselves, and suffer me to pledge both them and you to _a Bill_; after which, they first say that they will allow of nothing which admits the _original_ right, and when beat from that ground, that they will not have anything asserting the _present_ right. It then only remained, as we were pledged to _a Bill_, to consider whether this was not the best form of a Bill to be drawn on such principles.

Whatever your answer has been to Townshend's despatch, I hope at least that it has been coolly and temperately expressed, as he told me he meant to represent to you that an advantage had been taken against you from the warmth of your late despatches.

Another advantage which will arise from deferring the second reading will be, that by that time this strange, unsettled situation of things must have taken some form; and I do not believe that this form will be such as you will choose to act under in Ireland. In that case, it certainly will not be worth our while to engage our characters to a measure which the folly of your successor may render pernicious; which must at all events be precarious; and which England will most certainly repent whenever the hour of her insolence shall return. We took the business out of the hands of Lord Beauchamp, because it ought to be conducted by Government; and that will be the best reason for resigning it into other hands whenever we shall cease to stand in that character; which _whenever_ must, I think, arrive in the course of a very few days.

Jemmy is to dine at Lord Shelburne's on Monday, when he will probably be able to tell you more. I go to Townshend to-morrow, and mean to try what I can get from him.

At least we have the satisfaction to reflect, that if your reign has been short, it has not been dishonourable to you; and that having taken the Government at a most difficult and inauspicious moment, you will quit it with more real and more deserved popularity than the Duke of Portland, notwithstanding the uncommon advantages which threw themselves in his way.

Of myself I say nothing, except that wherever and whatever I am, I shall always consider myself as deriving honour, consequence and happiness from your character and success.

In these sentiments believe me, My dearest brother, Ever most affectionately yours, W. W. G.

I am able to tell you nothing with any certainty as to the state of parties; but I think that neither Lord Shelburne nor Fox are strong enough to keep the Government without a coalition with Lord North's people, and that the latter are too strong to sell themselves unless they be admitted to form part of the _Government_. Fox's people no longer deny his negotiating with Lord North.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Feb. 8th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

Lord Nugent tells me that when he saw the Primate, he observed to him that, by the list of officers of the Order, there was no mention made of any prelate, although in other respects the Garter was implicitly followed; and he says he thought, by the Primate's manner, that he himself wanted to be that prelate; as that officer is, you know, superior in rank to the Chancellor of the Order.

If this be the case, I can see no reason why the offer should not be made to him, which might still be done by your writing to say that that office had been omitted, from the impossibility of giving it to any other person but himself, and a doubt how far he might like the trouble; but that you had daily expected him in Ireland, and meant to ask him the question; but the time now drawing near, &c., &c.

Nothing else has passed on the subject, except a third application from Lord Clermont, through General Cuninghame, to whom I stated the total impossibility, &c. I expected Lord Bellamont to have asked it to-day; but he did not drop a word upon the subject.

Ever yours, W. W. G.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Feb. 11th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

Things are drawing near to their crisis. Lord Shelburne's weakness is every day more apparent. Nothing is clearer than that he cannot stand a week without some addition. The strongest proof of this is what Pitt told me to-day: that it being thought necessary to make some attempt at a junction with Fox, he had seen him to-day, when he asked one question, viz., whether there were any terms on which he would come in. The answer was, None, while Lord Shelburne remained; and so it ended.

Upon this, I think one may observe, that the one must be very desperate, the other very confident, before such a question could be so put and so answered.

I told him I was glad the attempt was made, though I was not at all surprised at the event. He said that he thought they would now be justified in seeking for additional strength elsewhere. I said I thought so too, but that I could not help trusting that this expression did not go to include the idea of bringing back any of the old people _to Cabinet offices_; that I thought the line was clear that it was the duty of every man to do his utmost to keep the Government in such hands as were fit and able to hold it (under which description I could not include any of that set); but that when it was so placed, it was idle to say that support was not to be looked for where it could be had. He said that, without making professions, he could with truth say, that this had always been his idea. And so our conversation ended--at least, this was the only material part of it.

There is no doubt but that they have been making proposals to Jenkinson, and these must have failed before the other offer could be made. On the other hand, I know for certain that negotiations, _through more than one channel_, have been _entamé_ between Fox and Lord North. This must be _bien en train_, if one may judge by what I tell you in this letter.

In that case, as well as in that which I put to ----, I take it for granted that I know your line; and whatever the effect of that line must be with respect to my own fortunes, I have infinitely too great a concern for your honour and my own, not to desire and wish it most eagerly. The only thing which pains me is the consideration of Bernard. If the interval should afford you an opportunity for that, I should depart in peace. Adieu.

Believe me, Most sincerely and affectionately yours, ----

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Feb. 15th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

I have this day received your letter of the 9th, and have the greatest satisfaction at that which you express respecting this long-agitated Bill. Since you wrote that, but before this time, you will have received a letter from me, enclosing a Bill proposed by Percy. I confess his dissent alarmed me a good deal at the time, ignorant as I was whether you might not see it in the same light. I am convinced now that it proceeds only from his resentment at not being consulted previous to its being fixed upon. The second reading stands now for Wednesday; but I doubt whether it can come on, as I understand the call previously fixed for that day is to be insisted upon. Before that time, I shall probably have received your letter, informing me whom you have consulted, as that is very material, particularly with regard to my being able to urge Grattan and Yelverton's authority against Fox and Fitzpatrick. At all events, however, I mean now to proceed in it on that day if I can, if not as early as possible, and to _bring_ you the account of the third reading in the House of Commons.

All this proceeds upon the idea that nothing of a different nature happens before; which I still think there is every reason to imagine. I cannot learn whether Fox and Lord North have settled their coalition so as to act together on Monday. Jenkinson is, I believe, secured to us; but at what price, and with what following, I am utterly ignorant; and on that the whole undoubtedly depends. As soon as I know anything, you shall hear it in the most expeditious manner; but I do not give you my conjectures when they are merely such, because I know people at a distance are apt to give them more weight than they deserve, and I should be sorry to mislead you.

The Duke of Rutland is Lord Steward, and it is said he is called to the Cabinet. This, to my mind, argues great weakness indeed. In the House of Lords, Lord Pembroke moves the Address; in the House of Commons, T. Pitt. This, I think, does not show very great strength. The seconders I know not.

You have several times mentioned the Pension List; and I have as often forgot to tell you, that I inquired in the first instance without speaking to Pitt, and found that, whatever reform is to be made, rests wholly with Lord Shelburne, who appears to act in it on no system, but to add or to take away at his pleasure. Jackson and Jemmy Grenville remonstrated some days ago at the Treasury against signing any more till they saw that the act was to be complied with.