Part 2

Mr. MILLER. To the best of my recollection at this time, sir.

Mr. WHEELER. You knew no one in the Aero Machinists Union to be a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. MILLER. In the Aero Mechanics Union?

Mr. WHEELER. Aero Mechanics; I am sorry.

Mr. MILLER. I relate the two together, in that I believe the Aero Mechanics were only involved with employees of Boeing.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WHEELER. You have also stated, I believe, that you were not assigned to any group or unit of the Communist Party.

Mr. MILLER. To the best of my recollection, that was my testimony, sir.

Mr. WHEELER. You don’t recall who recruited you into the Communist Party?

Mr. MILLER. I do not, sir. In fact, I might explain it this way: I am not even sure whether it was any specific individual or whether, during the course of an open meeting, it fell upon me, a desire to become a member. It is difficult for a man to reach that far back in years and testify with any certainty, sir.

Mr. WHEELER. You were very vague in your testimony as to how you became a member of the Communist Party.

Mr. MILLER. Sir, is it unreasonable to be vague on something that occurred nigh onto 12 years ago when I was between the age of 20 and 21, sir? Is that difficult to understand, that a man might honestly be vague?

Mr. WHEELER. How many meetings of the Communist Party did you attend from 1943 until the time you went in the Armed Forces in 1945?

Mr. MILLER. I would be unable to give you any number with any degree of accuracy. It would be pure speculation and only an estimate. If you want an estimate, I could give it if the committee so desires.

Mr. WHEELER. I think you can speculate on this part of your testimony.

Mr. MILLER. As I get the question, you are asking me how many do I think might have gone to. If I am recalling something I would have an actual number and would not have to estimate. I am not able to recall any number of meetings at which I attended. There was perhaps 30, 40 meetings, I do not know, over this period of time. It is purely a speculative answer, sir.

Mr. WHEELER. But you may have attended that many?

Mr. MILLER. That is right. And that may be at variance 50 percent one way or the other.

Mr. WHEELER. We are not binding you on this.

Mr. MILLER. Thank you, sir.

Mr. WHEELER. Where were these meetings held that you attended?

Mr. MILLER. I cannot recall specifically where any meetings might have been held. In fact, most of my activity while at Boeing’s was in legitimate, recognized trade-union work within the framework of the contract with Boeing Aircraft Co. Most, or if any, activity with other members, who I perhaps suspected to be Communists, or persons of my particular persuasion, was not in the form of a meeting, but perhaps I would meet one while at work, or I might meet one at the cafeteria, or several of us might meet together in the cafeteria and just discuss general problems.

Mr. WHEELER. Did you receive any direction from the Communist Party to conceal your membership because of your employment at Boeing’s?

Mr. MILLER. I do not believe it was at anyone’s direction. Thinking back--and I can only assign, a reason now going backward--I perhaps knew of my own intelligence not to do so. I would perhaps be expelled from the Aero Mechanics Union, which, of course, would mean loss of employment at Boeing’s. I do not recall any specific direction.

Mr. WHEELER. But you have testified that you may have attended approximately 40 meetings during the period from 1943 to 1945, a period of, say, 18 months or 20 months.

Mr. MILLER. I had thought I was testifying during the whole period at which I was in the party.

Mr. WHEELER. No, it is confined to the period from the time you joined the Communist Party to when you entered the United States Navy.

Mr. MILLER. Well then, of course, it makes more obvious that the answer was purely speculative and could well have been largely in error. I thought I was answering or speculating in regard to my whole membership in the Communist Party.

Mr. WHEELER. Would you like to estimate again that period of time?

Mr. MILLER. Well, I have got to go backward here. Which period of time are you referring to?

Mr. WHEELER. From the time you joined the Communist Party until you entered the United States Navy.

Mr. MILLER. That would be from 1943 up until 1945. Right? Two years?

Mr. WHEELER. That is right.

Mr. MILLER. Again a purely speculative answer: perhaps 20 meetings, sir.

Mr. WHEELER. Now you attended approximately 20 meetings from 1943 to 1945. And from 1946 to 1948 you attended approximately 20 more. And you don’t recall the place where any of these meetings were held?

Mr. MILLER. I have testified where I recalled that I thought we had conducted some. I cannot recall any specific place. One or two might have occurred at a rooming house where I stayed. I do not recall, sir.

Mr. MOULDER. Where were they usually held? Was there a regular meeting place?

Mr. MILLER. To the best of my knowledge; no, sir.

Mr. MOULDER. Who called the meetings? That is, how did you get a notice there was going to be a meeting held somewhere? How did you know where to go?

Mr. MILLER. About the only way that I can think of it backward now, and I am not at all sure, is I would probably see or meet someone else on the job or in the cafeteria, and they might mention that we were going to get together and discuss the general problems.

Mr. MOULDER. On the average, how many people would ordinarily attend those meetings?

Mr. MILLER. As I recall it, it was a very, very few. I could not say. Probably under 10, looking way, way back. But it is difficult to say.

Mr. MOULDER. Were they composed of people that you knew at the same place of employment?

Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOULDER. All of them?

Mr. MILLER. To the best of my knowledge now; yes, sir.

Mr. MOULDER. Proceed, Mr. Wheeler.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman, might I make one brief point in regard to this time? It might be better understood.

The question probably arises as to how I am so vague on meetings and meeting places. It might be better understood if we take into account that, as best I can recall, this occurred during the time when the Communist Party was then the Communist Political Association. I believe that they held open meetings. I do not recall too much secrecy involved in it. And for that reason secrecy did not perhaps impress itself on my mind. And to recall in one period of time where a change takes place and into another, it changes things, looking backward and forward.

Mr. MOULDER. Yes; I can appreciate what you are saying.

Mr. MILLER. Thank you.

Mr. MOULDER. At those meetings would there be a record kept of the meeting; minutes of any sort?

Mr. MILLER. Not to my knowledge, sir.

Mr. MOULDER. Would there be an officer or a person presiding at the meeting? Someone who would act as a chairman or some official?

Mr. MILLER. Whether it would be a person who acted as a chairman or whom the rest might just look to on the basis that--from the manner in which they spoke, they appeared to----

Mr. MOULDER. Were dues paid at those meetings?

Mr. MILLER. I cannot recall anything specific. However, I would imagine that there were, sir.

Mr. MOULDER. I wish to compliment you for coming forward here as a witness admitting that you were a member of the Communist Party, which is far better and a better reflection upon you as an individual and as an American citizen than to hide behind the fifth amendment. But surely while you were a member you recall having paid membership dues.

Mr. MILLER. Sir, I would have to answer it in this way, that undoubtedly I did. However, to recall a specific instance--I could not.

Mr. MOULDER. Do you recall the name of any one person who attended those meetings at any time? I mean during that long period of time, with the frequent meetings you have admitted that you attended, and the close contact that you had with the individuals, where you say you not only attended meetings, but frequently had lunch or ate meals together or visited with one another and discussed the meetings, surely you could remember the name of at least one person or more that you know, of your own personal knowledge, who associated with you at the same time in that respect.

Mr. MILLER. Perhaps I am confused. Perhaps that is the difficulty I have in answering. I was under the impression that the only names which you wished from me, to give out here publicly, would be persons whom I was certain or knew to be Communists.

Mr. MOULDER. Right.

Mr. MILLER. And it is only for that reason that I do not mention names. It is probable that I could prod my memory into remembering persons whom I met with or worked with while at Boeing’s in the trade unions. But to identify them here gives the impression that I am identifying them as Communists, which I do not know to be a certainty.

Mr. MOULDER. Do you recall the names of any persons who attended any of those meetings that you have referred to as Communist Party meetings or as Communist Political Association committee meetings, who were not members of the Communist Party?

Mr. MILLER. Sir, I could not be certain of where they were. I mean either way. If I was certain of those who were not members, that, by process of elimination, would make me certain of those who were. And I am not certain either way, sir.

Mr. WHEELER. Mrs. Hartle testified that you were a member of the Holly Park Branch of the Communist Party. Does that refresh your memory to any degree?

Mr. MILLER. In relation to what question, sir?

Mr. WHEELER. Do you recall being a member of that unit or cell of the Communist Party?

Mr. MILLER. I do not recall any activity in the branch that is mentioned. It is possible that in their records or in their determination that they maybe have regarded me as a member of that branch and that I did reside there.

Mr. WHEELER. You testified that during the period of time of your membership, the Communist Party was dissolved and the Communist Political Association formed. However, when you returned back from the Army in 1946 the Communist Political Association had been disbanded and the Communist Party reformed. A reorganization had taken place and the party had tightened up considerably after the Duclos letter, if you are familiar with that.

But did you notice, upon your return from the Armed Forces, any difference in the structure of the Communist Party?

Mr. MILLER. I don’t know that I paid any particular attention, sir. I don’t recall any great activity in the Communist Party after I returned from the service.

Mr. WHEELER. You have also testified that you left the Communist Party in 1948. For what reasons did you leave the party?

Mr. MILLER. As to the best of my knowledge, sir, I was dropped from the Communist Party for inactivity.

Mr. WHEELER. Have you attended any other Communist Party-type meetings like the Socialist Workers Party since you left the Communist Party?

Mr. MILLER. To be specific, as far as the Socialist Workers Party, I never have. And, to the best of my knowledge, I have attended no meetings of that type, sir.

Mr. WHEELER. And at this time you cannot recall one individual who was a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. MILLER. Well, I could put it this way: I could recall knowing Barbara Hartle. The only way I could say that she was is that she has publicly testified that she was.

Mr. WHEELER. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions at this time. However, I would like to recommend that the witness’ subpena be continued.

Mr. MOULDER. All right.

Do you have a question, Mr. Velde?

Mr. VELDE. Yes.

I believe you said you got out of the Army in 1948. Is that correct?

Mr. MILLER. To the best of my knowledge, sir.

Mr. VELDE. What prompted you to get out of the Communist Party when you did?

Mr. MILLER. To the best of my knowledge, the party dropped me for inactivity, sir.

Mr. VELDE. You never wrote a letter disavowing membership in the Communist Party then?

Mr. MILLER. No, sir, I never did.

Mr. VELDE. Or any other formal withdrawal from the Communist Party?

Mr. MILLER. Not to my knowledge, sir.

Mr. VELDE. Are you a Communist Party member today?

Mr. MILLER. No, sir, I am not. And again I have to testify to the best of my knowledge. I hope and trust that no one has me on the rolls unbeknownst to me. To my knowledge, I am not a member, no, sir.

Mr. VELDE. I certainly do appreciate your coming forward. It is rather refreshing.

It appears to me that with a little searching of your memory you might be able to recall some of the incidents more clearly than you have. I am sorry to say you are vague in your testimony about activities of the Communist Party in this area. So I will be in favor of the recommendation of Mr. Wheeler that you be retained under subpena so that you might check. If you want any assistance from our files, I am sure Mr. Wheeler will be able to give that to you. Next time you testify you may testify a little more definitely.

Mr. MOULDER. For your own benefit and for your own interest, I will ask you this question:

You say, as far as you know, you are no longer a member of the Communist Party.

Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOULDER. That is with the fear that some organization or someone might still be carrying your name on the rolls.

Mr. MILLER. It is a possibility.

Mr. MOULDER. Do you publicly, and here and now before this committee, disavow any belief in the Communist Party and refute all of the principles and policies for which it stands? Do you now take that stand, and do you now so testify?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. MILLER. The question, as I understand it, is--I mean the question of my avowal of a belief.

I hope I am allowed a little bit of latitude in answering this.

I state I am not a member of the Communist Party today due to any action on my part. I further state that I disavow anything which is contrary to the best interests of our country and of our people. As to pinning it down to the Communist Party, I have to frankly concede that I am not at all sure where the Communist Party is. I mean if the things that are ascribed to them are true, certainly I disavow them. I say that I have no association with them. It is only that I hesitate to disavow anything that I am not sure of.

I am sure of the one thing, that I am opposed to anything that is against the best interests of the people of our country.

Actually, since I was dropped in 1948 I have been inactive in all political activities to the point where I am not even registered to vote, I don’t believe, since 1948. I am confused on where most everybody stands, and I have not enough facts to draw a conclusion on it.

Mr. MOULDER. The reason I ask you that question is because there is considerable evidence before this committee and other investigative Government agencies that many Communist Party members ceased to be active as party members but have gone underground and still continue in their same belief, the same philosophy, and with, of course, the same objectives. I believe your answer is clear to this point: you attended all of those Communist Party meetings; I believe you said a hundred, and it would vary one way or another, 50 percent either way.

Mr. VELDE. Approximately 40, wasn’t it?

Mr. MILLER. That is it.

Mr. MOULDER. But during that period of time you certainly must have been well versed and qualified to know the purposes and the policies of the Communist Party as such, because at those meetings didn’t you study the Communist Party literature and study the purposes for which it was organized?

Mr. MILLER. Is that the question?

Mr. MOULDER. Yes.

Mr. MILLER. Yes, I did.

Mr. MOULDER. Has your opinion now changed with respect to the Communist Party from what it was when you were attending the Communist Party meetings? Or is it the same as it was then?

Mr. MILLER. I see what you are driving at, and it is hard for me to get my understanding across.

Mr. MOULDER. You say you have severed your association with the party, and I want to know if it is just a technical disassociation or is it a clean break from the Communist Party?

Mr. MILLER. No; it is not a technical disassociation. If I might have a moment, I would like to go on a little further.

First, the reference is to having attended, say, up to 40 meetings, one way or the other, and being aware of the goal of the Communist Party. I would have to say this in all honesty: During the time I was a member of the Communist Party I at no time was aware of their desire to do anything which was contrary to the best interests of the people. Now it could conceivably be that I was not aware, perhaps naive.

All of my activity--and, in fact, that is what prompted me not to take the fifth amendment. At no time in my life have I knowingly done anything contrary to the best interests of the people of this country. And certainly were I to be aware of that in an association and continue activity I would be guilty of doing something against the best interests of the people.

Mr. MOULDER. The subpena that has been served upon you will be in full force and effect. You will be subject to recall upon due notice.

Mr. MILLER. Should I leave for the day?

Mr. MOULDER. Yes.

The subpena will remain in full force and effect, and you will be subject to recall upon due notice at any time in the future. That does not mean, of course, that you have to attend any of the hearings here today or tomorrow.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Mr. Eugene V. Dennett at this time.

TESTIMONY OF EUGENE VICTOR DENNETT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, KENNETH A. MacDONALD--Resumed

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Dennett, at the time we suspended your testimony you had completed your narrative with regard to your experience in the CCC camp, and told us that immediately thereafter you had been shanghaied into working shipping.

(At this point Representative Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing room.)

Mr. DENNETT. A little freight boat here in Puget Sound.

Mr. TAVENNER. I am sure that would be a very interesting story, but it is not a matter we are investigating in our work here.

After you had that experience how long was it before you returned to the work of the Communist Party?

Mr. DENNETT. It was within a very few months because I didn’t know at the time I started to work in the freight-boat industry in Puget Sound that there was an organizing drive of a union to organize the employees and that they had reached the point before I came along where they had entered into an arbitration. And they were awaiting the decision of this arbitrator. Finally the decision came down, I think about 3 or 4 months after I entered the industry, and the decision was so adverse that the men stopped work as soon as the boats got into port.

Mr. TAVENNER. What do you mean by saying that a decision came down?

Mr. DENNETT. The arbitrator handed down his decision. He was a very long time making his decision. When it finally came down it was very disagreeable to all the employees. In fact, they rejected it; they refused to accept it and called a strike.

When they called that strike they were confronted with a problem of electing delegates to attend a meeting of the union to determine what course of action to pursue.

I was elected a delegate from the crew that I was working with.

When we arrived at this meeting--I believe the meeting was held in the labor temple--we discussed the award, and the union leaders at that time were very frankly disappointed in the results of it.

The sum total of it was that it led to a strike, and the members seemed to like the way I presented their case during the course of the arguments, getting ready for the strike. And when the strike occurred I was elected chairman of the strike committee and chairman of the negotiating committee.

So we were again brought into public attention, and the Communist Party looked me up very quickly to find out what was going on and to try to advise me how to conduct myself in the course of that strike. They really knew very little about it. They learned a great deal from me because I was working with the men. And their advice was I must immediately fight the leadership of the union.

I made a few feeble efforts in that direction and found that I didn’t have any good reason for fighting that leadership because they were carrying out the program which I had advocated in the original strike meeting to satisfy the needs of the members.

Mr. TAVENNER. Apparently, the Communist Party was more interested in promoting its own objectives than it was the objectives of the union which was on strike.

Mr. DENNETT. They were anxious that someone from the Communist Party gain control in that organization.

Mr. TAVENNER. What was the name of the organization?

Mr. DENNETT. At that time it was called the Ferry Boatmen’s Union of the Pacific. It later has changed its name, and, in making use of that name, I certainly want it to be clearly understood that using that name in nowise should be construed as meaning that it was any Communist organization because it was not.

Mr. TAVENNER. It rather demonstrated just the contrary.

Mr. DENNETT. And its leaders were not.

But the leaders of that organization were making as sincere an effort as they knew how to represent the wishes and needs of the membership.

While there were some tactical differences between myself and them on various occasions, we did adopt a program wherein we agreed with each other that none of us would attempt to do anything or to speak in behalf of the organization without conferring with the other. In other words, we made a mutual agreement among ourselves as officials of the strike committee which required the exchange of mutual confidence. And, to the best of my ability, I carried that out, and I think, in all fairness, it should be said that, to the best of their ability, they carried their part out. I think the value of that is demonstrated by the fact that in the final settlement of that strike we succeeded in raising the wages of the freight-boat employees from $49 per month, without any regulation of hours, to a wage of about $150 per month with a regulation of hours and provision for overtime.

Mr. VELDE (presiding).

I am not quite clear about this ferry boatmen’s union. Was it a local union not affiliated with any other?

Mr. DENNETT. It was a part of an American Federation affiliate. At that time it was the Ferry Boatmen’s Union of the Pacific, affiliated with the International Seamen’s Union of America, affiliated with the American Federation of Labor.

Mr. VELDE. In what year?

Mr. DENNETT. That was in 1936.

Mr. VELDE. How large was the local? How many members?

Mr. DENNETT. I think there were in the neighborhood of 300 or 400 members in Puget Sound at that time. But that, of course, controlled all the tug boats and all the barges, all the towing, all the servicing, on the waterside of the smaller vessels.

I think that that completes the statement of what was in progress at the time of the question.

Mr. TAVENNER. After this experience on the waterfront what was your next contact with the Communist Party?

Mr. DENNETT. The next occurred in the district council of the Maritime Federation of the Pacific. That was Northwest District Council No. 1 which was in Seattle. This was the council to which delegates were sent from all the maritime unions.

(At this point Representative Morgan M. Moulder returned to the hearing room.)

Mr. DENNETT. And some of the shoreside unions, which worked in the shipyards.