Part 15

Mr. Dennett, as far as the particular testimony you have given about your expulsion from the Communist Party is concerned, the experience that you had is similar to the experience of other persons who have been expelled from the Communist Party.

I think, of course, that you should be proud to have been expelled by the Communist Party. And I trust that, while you might at times find yourself in the same position of following the same line that the Communist Party does at the present time, that you no longer cling to the philosophy that we know the Communist Party represents here in the United States, that is, the philosophy of the Soviet Union, which intends of course, to rule the world eventually, whether it be by changing governments by peaceful means or by overthrowing it by force and violence.

We say it has been a great pleasure to hear your very fine testimony, and let me say also that I agree that you have been a very intelligent and truthful witness.

Mr. MOULDER. With our thanks and gratitude, you are excused.

Mr. DENNETT. Thank you, sir.

I wish to say, upon my being excused, that I want to extend my greatest appreciation to the patience of Mr. Tavenner, who has been the counsel to examine me. It has been a pleasure to work with a gentleman who is as well versed and who knows what he is doing as well as Mr. Tavenner.

And I want to thank Mr. Wheeler for the patience that he had, and the committee as well.

Mr. MOULDER. Call the next witness, Mr. Tavenner.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Abraham Cohen.

Mr. MOULDER. Hold up your right hand.

Mr. Photographer, when you take your picture, would you stand to the right or left so I can swear the witness.

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before this congressional committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. COHEN. I do.

TESTIMONY OF ABRAHAM ARTHUR COHEN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, EDWARD E. HENRY

Mr. TAVENNER. What is your name, please, sir?

Mr. COHEN. Abraham Arthur Cohen.

(Whereupon a brief disturbance occurred in the corridor outside the door of the hearing room.)

Mr. TAVENNER. Let’s proceed.

Mr. MOULDER. Please be seated. We will have order in the hearing room, please.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will everyone be seated, please.

Mr. MOULDER. No pictures will be taken, please.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you seat those people at the door, and close the door, please.

I note you are accompanied by counsel. Will counsel please identify himself.

Mr. HENRY. Edward Henry, of the Seattle bar.

Mr. TAVENNER. I am not going to take the time to ask you various questions which I know the committee is interested in asking you because of the lateness of the hour. I will confine my questions to just 2 or 3 matters. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. COHEN. I am not.

Mr. TAVENNER. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. COHEN. I have been.

Mr. TAVENNER. Over what period of time were you a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. COHEN. From early in--well, I believe July 1937 until I left for the Armed Forces in March of 1942, and then upon returning from the war, oh, some time early in 1946, I would say, until January 1, 1951.

Mr. TAVENNER. Have you been a member of the Communist Party since 1951?

Mr. COHEN. No, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. I believe you are one of the few, if not the only person in the United States, who registered as a member of the Communist Party upon the adoption of the Internal Security Act of 1950.

Mr. COHEN. It wasn’t a thing of which I was ashamed. I felt I was in the party. I felt that what I was doing was the right thing. I had no conscientious qualms about belonging to it. I felt what we were doing was right. And everything that I saw--nothing I saw led me to believe that it was subversive. I felt it was--what we were doing was in the interest of the workingman.

Mr. TAVENNER. Our purpose in subpenaing you was to ask you certain facts we think are within your knowledge regarding Communist Party activities. You have indicated a full desire, a willingness to give the committee the facts that you have. You have given a a written statement to the staff.

Mr. COHEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. I am not going into any of those matters now because they are here available for us. But, out of fairness to you, I want to give you the opportunity to make any further statement you desire regarding your own attitude toward the Communist Party.

Mr. COHEN. Do you feel that I haven’t stated my position enough in that brief?

Mr. TAVENNER. We would ask you additional questions if we had time to do it, and we may do that later. But for the present I want to be certain you have an opportunity to tell the committee anything further that is on your mind that might be of some benefit to yourself.

Mr. COHEN. Well, I felt that my desires on leaving the party were that I was in it primarily because of its connection with the trade-union movement. It helped the Guild in the early days to organize.

Mr. TAVENNER. And you function within the American Newspaper Guild?

Mr. COHEN. That is right.

I felt it did a worthwhile job there. And a great many people--Communists and non-Communists--benefited thereby. After the war the situation changed.

Mr. MOULDER. The witness is excused.

Mr. TAVENNER. I am not sure that he is through.

Mr. COHEN. I am ready to quit talking at any time.

Mr. TAVENNER. This is your time to talk if you want to.

Mr. COHEN. After the war I felt that we were in a--we were extending the neighborhood branches, and that the trade union, the time for trade union action was past. We didn’t function in trade union matters. My working hours were changed, and I no longer was--I rarely attended meetings. I really lost what contact I had.

And the act that finally culminated in my leaving was the fact that I wanted to take a trip abroad, and under one of the provisions of the McCarran Act it required that no Communist should be granted a passport.

And so I wanted to visit scenes of where I had been during the war, and I explained to the party that I wanted to leave. And it startled them, I admit, reasonably. But I succeeded in resigning. And there have been no repercussions since.

Mr. VELDE. Do I understand you have been, and are willing at any time to make available any information you have relative to your activities in the Communist Party?

Mr. COHEN. Yes, I am. I will say--before anybody even talks to me--there weren’t very many. There were very few; there weren’t very many.

Mr. VELDE. But are you willing to make those available to us?

Mr. COHEN. Yes.

Mr. VELDE. And, of course, we would be willing to hear you at length if we had the opportunity to do so.

Mr. TAVENNER. In light of the witness’ statements, I have no further questions.

Mr. MOULDER. Do you have any further statement you wish to make, Mr. Witness?

Mr. COHEN. Nothing further to say.

Mr. MOULDER. Then you are excused as a witness.

(Whereupon the witness was excused.)

Mr. TAVENNER. May I call Mr. Dennett to the front of the rostrum for a moment?

TESTIMONY OF EUGENE VICTOR DENNETT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, KENNETH A. MacDONALD--Resumed

Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Dennett.

Mr. DENNETT. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOULDER. It has been my suggestion, after conferring with counsel, that probably it would be best that we revoke and withdraw our order excusing you from the force and effect of your subpena, and keep you under subpena.

Mr. DENNETT. I still have it.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, I believe there may be a legal technicality involved, and I ask that the witness be resubpenaed. So there will be no question about it.

Mr. MOULDER. It is so ordered.

Mr. TAVENNER. That is a matter of protection to the witness.

Mr. VELDE. I think we ought to make this additional statement, that the reason for resubpenaing you is so that you might be within the protection of the United States Government in case anything arises as apparently happened out here a few minutes ago.

Mr. MOULDER. That is our only purpose in issuing another subpena.

Mr. DENNETT. Thank you.

Mr. MOULDER. Call the next witness.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Bernard Freyd.

Mr. HATTEN. May I request the Chair to ask the photographers not to take pictures?

Mr. MOULDER. We will have order in the hearing room.

Mr. HATTEN. Will you please not take any pictures?

Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Hatten.

Mr. HATTEN. I would like to request, Mr. Freyd does not like to have his picture taken in the hearing room. Would you so direct the photographers?

Mr. MOULDER. Very well.

The photographers will please refrain from taking pictures of the witness approaching the witness stand.

Hold up your right hand and be sworn, please.

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give before this congressional committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?

Mr. FREYD. I do.

TESTIMONY OF BERNARD FREYD, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, C. T. HATTEN

Mr. TAVENNER. What is your name?

Mr. FREYD. Bernard Freyd--F-r-e-y-d.

Mr. TAVENNER. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel.

Will counsel identify himself for the record?

Mr. HATTEN. My name is C. T. Hatten. I am an attorney residing in Seattle.

Mr. TAVENNER. When and where were you born, Mr. Freyd?

Mr. FREYD. I was born in Seattle in 1893.

Mr. TAVENNER. What is your occupation?

Mr. FREYD. I am not employed by anyone.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, briefly, what your formal educational training has been.

Mr. FREED. I went through the public-school system, high school of this city, and University of Washington.

Mr. TAVENNER. When did you complete your educational training at the University of Washington?

Mr. FREYD. It was about the year 1930.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, how you have been employed since 1935?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. FREYD. I had no regular employment until the outbreak of the war, and I worked in various war plants until I was incapacitated by an accident in 1943.

Mr. TAVENNER. What was your business between 1930 and the outbreak of the war?

Mr. FREYD. Well, I was unemployed.

Mr. TAVENNER. During that entire period of time?

Mr. FREYD. Practically, as I recollect.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you engaged in any work of any kind during that period?

Mr. FREYD. Well, there was no work available that I could find.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you mean you were unemployed until 1941, December 1941?

Mr. FREYD. Yes.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where did you live in 1940?

Mr. FREYD. I lived in Seattle.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you engage in any work without remuneration?

Mr. FREYD. No.

Mr. TAVENNER. During the period from 1935 to 1940?

Mr. FREYD. No.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you connected with the Civil Rights Congress?

Mr. FREYD. I think I should invoke the fifth amendment on that question as I feel that it may tend to incriminate me.

Mr. MOULDER. To clarify the response, do you decline to answer by invoking the fifth amendment of the Constitution, or do you refuse to answer for fear it will tend to incriminate you?

Mr. FREYD. And also the first amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and of the press and the right of people to assemble peaceably.

Mr. TAVENNER. The witness who preceded you a few moments ago, Mr. Eugene V. Dennett, described his disagreement with the Communist Party in connection with its policy toward the Civil Rights Congress. He told the committee that the Communist Party had organized the Civil Rights Congress, but that he disagreed with the policy of forming an organization which would defend only Communists. And, for that reason, he incurred the wrath of his superiors in the Communist Party.

He further testified that he was told by the leadership of the Communist Party that it didn’t have time to protect the civil rights of people generally, but it was only interested in the civil rights of members of the Communist Party.

Now it is our information that you held an official position in the Civil Rights Congress. I may be wrong about that. But surely you were in a position to know whether or not Mr. Dennett was telling the truth about the attitude of the Communist Party toward the Civil Rights Congress or the work of the Civil Rights Congress.

Mr. FREYD. I should like to confer with my attorney.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. FREYD. I invoke the first amendment and the fifth amendment for the reasons previously stated. And I may add that I am pleased to notice that there has been very widespread doubt expressed prominently in the press about the veracity of a witness testifying before this committee.

Mr. TAVENNER. If you have any doubt about that you are now in a position to straighten the committee out on it. In what particular, if any, was Mr. Dennett in error in his testimony?

Mr. FREYD. I would like to confer with my counsel.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. FREYD. I claim, again, the first and fifth amendments of the Constitution, and I wish to add that I am reluctant to answer any questions which would require me to claim the protection of the first and fifth amendments.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. FREYD. The answer is the same, for the same reason.

Mr. TAVENNER. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. FREYD. The answer is the same, and for the same reason.

Mr. TAVENNER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MOULDER. Any questions, Mr. Velde?

Mr. VELDE. No questions.

Mr. MOULDER. The witness is excused.

(Whereupon the witness was excused.)

Mr. MOULDER. Call the next witness, Mr. Tavenner.

Mr. HATTEN. Mr. Chairman?

Mr. MOULDER. Yes.

Mr. HATTEN. While I am here may I address the Chair with reference to the O’Connell matter again?

Mr. MOULDER. Yes.

STATEMENT OF C. T. HATTEN, ATTORNEY AT LAW, SEATTLE, WASH.

Mr. HATTEN. I notice that on a number of witnesses the subpenas have been continued, and I would like to formally move that the subpena in case of Jerry O’Connell be continued to some later date at which time his health might be better.

Mr. MOULDER. The committee cannot entertain your motion.

Mr. HATTEN. I merely would like to make it for the record.

Mr. MOULDER. You have made the request on the record.

Mr. HATTEN. To state the position, I understand that possibly you cannot pass upon it.

Mr. MOULDER. Call the next witness.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Lenus Westman.

Mr. MOULDER. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give before this congressional committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?

Mr. WESTMAN. I do.

TESTIMONY OF HANS LENUS ADOLPH WESTMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, C. T. HATTEN

Mr. WESTMAN. Mr. Chairman, under the first and fifth amendments----

Mr. TAVENNER. You haven’t been asked any questions.

Mr. WESTMAN. O. K.

Mr. TAVENNER. We will give you a chance.

What is your name, please, sir?

Mr. WESTMAN. Under the first and fifth amendments, as the result of having been subpenaed, I wish to apply these two amendments as reasons for not giving my name.

And also, in the light of the statement that was made here this afternoon, that you would like to have some witness that didn’t have to use his name, that is, that you could have appearing before you.

Mr. TAVENNER. You are mistaken.

Mr. MOULDER. We will have order, please.

Mr. VELDE. Do you refuse to answer as to what your name is?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. I am going to confer with my attorney.

I wish to state that----

Mr. MOULDER. You are directed to answer the question.

Mr. WESTMAN. I will answer the question under protest.

My name is Hans Lenus Adolph Westman.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you spell your last name?

Mr. WESTMAN. W-e-s-t-m-a-n.

Mr. TAVENNER. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel.

Will counsel please identify himself for the record?

Mr. HATTEN. C. T. Hatten, previously identified as an attorney in Seattle.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where do you live, Mr. Westman?

Mr. WESTMAN. In Seattle.

Mr. TAVENNER. What is your occupation?

Mr. WESTMAN. I would like to confer with counsel.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. Well, I will answer under compulsion, and I am a sheetmetal worker.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you have any other occupation?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. Do you mean at the present time?

Mr. TAVENNER. During the last month, say, during the month of March.

Mr. WESTMAN. I would like to confer with my counsel.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. Well, sir, I would like--I will decline to answer that question under the fifth amendment, as I do not know what is referred to as work by the question, and, hence, it might be something that is construed by you, sir, as constituting work that might be of a character that would waive my rights under the fifth amendment. And, hence, I will take the fifth amendment.

Mr. TAVENNER. I will be more specific.

Have you been engaged during the month of March in any publication work of any kind? That will limit it within narrow bounds.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. I will decline to answer that under the fifth amendment. And I would like to go into the reasons why I take the fifth amendment, because under----

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, the witness has stated his reason as being the fifth amendment, which is a ground, under the circumstances here, I think he is entitled to use. And, therefore, it would not require any speech to accompany it.

Mr. MOULDER. Please make a direct answer to the question. We will get along more quickly.

Mr. WESTMAN. I said that under the fifth amendment I decline to answer that question, and I would like to just point out, Mr. Chairman, that I do take the fifth amendment because of the fact that it is in the Constitution to protect the innocent, and for the same reason that you gentlemen of Congress have congressional immunity.

Mr. MOULDER. You have made yourself clear about the fifth amendment.

Mr. TAVENNER. Have you at any time, during the month of March 1955, been the press director of the Communist Party?

Mr. WESTMAN. I will decline to answer that under the first and fifth amendments, as, under the first amendment, that is directly inquiring into the freedom of the press and into matters of like nature, and, under the fifth amendment, I decline because such testimony might be construed as testimony against myself.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mrs. Barbara Hartle testified before this committee, in June of 1954. In the course of her testimony in identifying various individuals as members of the Communist Party, she stated:

Lenus Westman was a member of a club in the central region and lived in that area. Most of his Communist Party activities were in mass work at that time, like the Progressive Party or election work.

Tell the committee, please, what knowledge you have of the activities of the Communist Party, if any, within the Progressive Party.

Mr. WESTMAN. Well, Mr. Chairman, I will decline to answer that question under the fifth amendment.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. I think I have made my point clear on that.

Mr. MOULDER. May I ask you a question?

Where were you born and reared?

Mr. WESTMAN. I was born in Sweden, Umea, Sweden; and came to this country at the age of 7.

Mr. MOULDER. How old are you now?

Mr. WESTMAN. I am 52 years of age.

Mr. MOULDER. Are you a citizen of the United States?

Mr. WESTMAN. Yes, I am.

Mr. MOULDER. How long have you been a citizen?

Mr. WESTMAN. Since 1936.

Mr. MOULDER. Have you served in the armed services of the United States?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. Yes; I have.

Mr. MOULDER. What branch of the armed services?

Mr. WESTMAN. In the infantry, Army.

Mr. MOULDER. For what period of time?

Mr. WESTMAN. From July 1942, until February 1943.

Mr. MOULDER. Did you receive an honorable discharge from the service?

Mr. WESTMAN. Yes; I did.

Mr. VELDE. I would like to ask one question.

How did you obtain citizenship in this country?

Mr. WESTMAN. Through naturalization.

Mr. VELDE. Did you file your petition for naturalization on your own?

Mr. WESTMAN. It was by petition.

Mr. TAVENNER. What was the date of your naturalization?

Mr. WESTMAN. It was July 1936.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was it July 27, 1936?

Mr. WESTMAN. Yes; I think that was the exact date.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where were you naturalized?

Mr. WESTMAN. Here in Seattle in the Federal court.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the time you were naturalized?

Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question under the fifth amendment.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are you a member of the Communist Party now?

Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons that I have given.

Mr. TAVENNER. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at any time between 1936 and the present date?

Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question for the same reason that I have given.

Mr. VELDE. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the time you were naturalized?

Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question also, and for the same reason.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Chairman, it appears to me there is some evidence that should be referred to the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service for future consideration, possibly with a view to denaturalization and deportation.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you elected to the Senate of the State of Washington in the election of 1940?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. Yes; I was.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you serve? That is, were you seated?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question, sir, under the fifth amendment.

Mr. TAVENNER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. VELDE. I want to go a little further. When did you file your petition for naturalization?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. Well, at the moment I don’t recall exactly when I filed the petition, but it is a matter of public record.

Mr. VELDE. Would it have been approximately 5 years before the date of your naturalization in 1936?

Mr. WESTMAN. Yes.

Mr. VELDE. Probably in 1931?

Mr. WESTMAN. It would be approximately in that period.

Mr. VELDE. How old were you at that time?

Mr. WESTMAN. I was 29, I believe, at that time.

Mr. VELDE. Then during the 5 years following your filing of a petition for naturalization did you engage in any type of Communist activity?

Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question for the reasons that I have given before.

Mr. VELDE. Did you know what the Communist Party was at that time?

Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons that I have given.

Mr. VELDE. Where, and in what court did you receive your citizenship?

Mr. WESTMAN. It was at the Federal courthouse here, but I am not sure at the present time which court it was.

Mr. VELDE. At the time that you received your citizenship in the court, United States district court, were you engaged in any Communist Party activities?

Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons that I have given before.

Mr. MOULDER. Have you, to your own best knowledge and information, ever committed any act, a subversive act or one of un-American conduct against the United States of America?

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. WESTMAN. Well, sir, under the fifth amendment, I must decline to answer that question, and I also know that this committee knows that I have not been engaged in such activities. I am sure that this committee knows that.

Mr. VELDE. As a member of the committee, I certainly do not know that you have not been engaged in subversive activities.

Mr. MOULDER. It seems to me you now have an opportunity to tell the committee that you have not been engaged in subversive activities.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)