Part 10

Mr. STENHOUSE. I believe there was some sort of dues structure, but I don’t remember now how it worked. There were these materials for sale at the meetings, and money changed hands. I don’t remember now how much of it was for books, how much of it was for dues.

Mr. MOULDER. Over what period of time did you continue to participate in such meetings and in what you then considered to be Communist Party activity?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, I find it hard to set the actual dates, but it was, I think, some time during the latter part of 1943 and 1944.

Mr. MOULDER. And thereafter you have never in any way whatsoever participated in any Communist Party activity?

Mr. STENHOUSE. That isn’t the truth, sir.

Mr. MOULDER. What would you say?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I also attended some similar meetings when I was in Washington, D. C.

Mr. MOULDER. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o’clock.

(Whereupon, at 12:03 p. m., a recess was taken until 2 p. m. this same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION, MARCH 19, 1955

Mr. MOULDER. The committee will be in order, please.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN STENHOUSE, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, JACK R. CLUCK--Resumed

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Stenhouse, we were discussing the Communist Party branch or group of which you were a member in Los Angeles. Will you give the committee, please, the names of those who were associated with you in that group?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I am unable to give you the names, Mr. Tavenner. It is a long time ago, and I have been trying to remember. As I indicated to you the other day, if you give me some ideas of whom you think were present, it might refresh my memory.

Mr. TAVENNER. I believe I told you that we would try to present you with a list of persons who had been identified in the Los Angeles area as members of the Communist Party, but we do not have that list with us, and we are unable to present it to you now. We may do so later in an effort to refresh your recollection.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Mr. STENHOUSE. I am willing at any time to tell you if any particular individual in my recollection was at those meetings.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, how you became employed in the United States Department of Commerce in Washington.

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, as I indicated, after I was obliged to have my hernia operation and get out of the defense work that I had been doing I sought occupation in a number of places. And somewhere along the line somebody brought my qualifications in the Far East to Congressman Ellis Patterson, and he referred it to Henry Wallace, and the appointment was made on that introduction.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you finally become head of your Section in the Department of Commerce?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Chief of the Section.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was that the Section dealing with China?

Mr. STENHOUSE. That is right.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did your activities in the Department of Commerce have anything to do with known Communists in China?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No. The work that I was doing was related to the rehabilitation of trade. We were answering the inquiries of businessmen relating to regulations and economic conditions in China and the Far East. We prepared articles for the Foreign Commerce Weekly and conducted an economic analysis of the possibilities of reopening trade.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you tell the committee that you attended Communist Party meetings in the city of Washington?

Mr. STENHOUSE. That is right.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was that during the entire period of time you were in Washington?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I can’t be sure of the time again. But it was somewhere between the end of, I think, somewhere between the end of 1945 and the end of 1946.

Mr. TAVENNER. How soon after your arrival in Washington did you become identified with the Communist Party there, and attend those group meetings?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I can’t place it. I know that shortly after I got to Washington I had another serious operation, and I was busy getting adjusted to my new work. Sometime about then I joined the Federal Workers Union.

Mr. MOULDER. I did not understand you. You joined what?

Mr. STENHOUSE. The Federal Workers Union.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was it after you became a member of the Federal Workers Union that you first began attending Communist Party meetings in the District of Columbia?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I can’t be sure. I think it was.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you advance to the point of holding an office of any type in the union while you were in Washington?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I was a shop steward and collected dues from 4 or 5 people. That was all.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, the circumstances under which you were approached to identify yourself with the Communist Party while you were working for the Department of Commerce?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, again I think it was that one of the fellows in the union asked me to attend some of the similar sort of meetings that I had before. But it is possible that it was from some contact in Los Angeles. I am not sure about that.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did that individual indicate that he knew you had been associated with a branch of the Communist Party in Los Angeles when he first talked to you about attending such meetings in the District of Columbia?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I don’t remember whether he did or not.

Mr. TAVENNER. Who was the person that contacted you in Washington?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, again I can’t remember his name. But I have already told you who I thought it was in terms of his union function. He was a member of the grievance committee in that department.

Mr. TAVENNER. Can you give a better identification of the individual than the fact he was with the grievance committee?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, I can give you a physical description to some extent. He was a fairly short fellow and dark, dark hair.

Mr. TAVENNER. About what age person was he at that time?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Oh, I imagine maybe 30, 32; something like that.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where did he live?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I don’t know. He may have lived in Virginia. I say that because one of the houses where we met was in Virginia.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was it his house?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I am not sure now.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was he also employed by the Department of Commerce?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. What was his position in the Department of Commerce?

Mr. STENHOUSE. He was in the Balance of Payments. I am not sure of the actual name of the division. The work of that division was related to the study and report of international balance of payments.

Mr. TAVENNER. Can you tell us where his office was located in the Department of Commerce?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No. It was a huge building and I don’t remember what floor it was on. It was in the main building.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was it on the same floor as your office?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I don’t remember.

Mr. TAVENNER. Can you give us his name?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No; I can’t sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were all of the members of this group employees in the Department of Commerce?

(Representative Harold H. Velde entered the hearing room at this point.)

Mr. STENHOUSE. I am not sure of that. I think they were. I identified them in my mind at least with members of the Public Workers Union. And, while I was--well, I was going to say with that local. But I am not sure of that.

Mr. TAVENNER. What was the number of the local?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I don’t remember. I only attended about, oh, not more than 4 or 5 union meetings. I dropped out of the union around the end of 1946, I think it was. And, as a matter of fact, I was extremely busy in my work and wasn’t actually familiar with the organization of the union.

Mr. TAVENNER. You were active enough in the union to be made a steward.

Mr. STENHOUSE. That is right. I was a shop steward.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was it your duty, as a shop steward, to represent the membership of the union in legitimate grievances?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, we never had any. And all I did was collect dues and turn them over to another fellow.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were any of the persons from whom you collected union dues members of the group of the Communist Party to which you referred?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No. No; I don’t think they were.

Mr. TAVENNER. Was this a mixed group, men and women?

Mr. STENHOUSE. In the discussion group?

Mr. TAVENNER. Yes.

Mr. STENHOUSE. Yes; I think it was only men.

Mr. TAVENNER. How many?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Four or five.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you give us the names, if you can, of any of the members of the group?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No, sir, I can’t.

Mr. MOULDER. You have referred several times to the discussion group. Can you tell us what you discussed?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, we discussed international affairs, domestic problems; we discussed articles, as I indicated before, in Communist and other publications.

Mr. MOULDER. In any of these groups were you ever addressed by prominent Communist officials or leaders?

Mr. STENHOUSE. In those discussion groups?

Mr. MOULDER. Yes.

Mr. STENHOUSE. Not that I know of. They were all people, as far as I could determine, just like myself, maybe temporarily off on a wrong track. There was never any use of fictitious names as far as I know. I didn’t use a fictitious name.

Mr. MOULDER. Will you repeat over what period of time did you attend discussion groups when you were in Washington?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, it was some time between the latter part of 1945 and 1946.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Chairman, it seems unusual to me that the witness cannot remember anybody’s name, or the name of any person who attended these meetings.

This occurred less than 10 years ago, did it not?

Mr. STENHOUSE. About 10 years.

Mr. VELDE. And you cannot remember the name of a single person who attended those discussion groups?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No. And I have tried to do it, and I have offered to cooperate to the best of my ability with the staff of your committee, sir.

It is, as you say, 10 years ago. I have moved out into a different part of the world, an entirely different environment, new thoughts. Since I have been out here I have been working hard to establish myself economically, and I haven’t had association within that time to remind me.

Mr. VELDE. Have you conscientiously tried to search your memory, to review the history of that period to determine whether you could name any persons who attended these meetings?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I have, sir.

Mr. VELDE. Did you say you have consulted with our staff to determine whether or not they can refresh your memory?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Yes.

Mr. VELDE. Of course, it still seems odd to me that you cannot remember one single person.

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, as a matter of fact, I can’t remember the names of people whom I was in much more direct contact with in those days.

Mr. VELDE. You are a very intelligent person. There is no question about that. It does seem to me that you could remember someone that you went with. But can’t you remember the occasion of your first visit to one of these discussion groups?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No.

Mr. VELDE. Or how you happened to get to the meeting?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I don’t remember where it was. It was apparently in the house of one of the members of the group.

Mr. VELDE. Do you remember the physical surroundings of the meeting place? Apparently it was in a home of one of the members of the group.

Mr. STENHOUSE. One of the meetings, as I recall, was in, I think it was an apartment in one of the projects over on the Virginia side.

Mr. VELDE. On that occasion can you remember anyone discussing any particular legislation; for instance, legislation pending at that time?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No; I can’t. They were very----

Mr. VELDE. Can you recall the name of any individual discussing any particular item?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No, I don’t.

Mr. VELDE. By physical description?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No. They were very informal discussions. We just exchanged ideas back and forth. Somebody had read an article out of a paper or one of the publications, and we discussed it, and that was about it.

Mr. VELDE. Your impression was, however, that it was a Communist Party discussion group?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Yes, that is my impression.

Mr. VELDE. Did you discuss Marxism?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No.

Mr. VELDE. You cannot recall what you discussed except that you vaguely remember it was a Communist Party discussion?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I say we were discussing foreign affairs, domestic problems. I remember at that time the question of price control was in people’s minds, and I am pretty sure that that was one of the things we discussed.

They were nothing more nor less than an attempt, from a certain viewpoint, to study and explain, if you like, the phenomena we were living in.

Mr. VELDE. Have you no independent recollection whatsoever of how you happened to get into the first meeting?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Except that I was invited, as far as I remember, by this fellow that I have described.

Mr. VELDE. But do you remember his name?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I probably saw him not more than, oh, 20 times during the whole time I was in Washington. And there were many people in Washington whom I saw every day, whose names I can’t remember.

Another thing, Mr. Congressman, we discussed the same topics from a different viewpoint with other people. And it is very hard to remember now exactly which topic was discussed at which meeting.

Mr. VELDE. I am sure, Mr. Stenhouse, it is very hard to remember exactly. But certainly I think that a person of average intelligence and a fair memory could remember at least one person.

Mr. STENHOUSE. If I could name them I would. And in offering to go over a list of names, I have done the best I can to cooperate with your committee.

Mr. MOULDER. When you filed your application for Government employment did you file Government form 57?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOULDER. Do you remember the names of the persons you gave as references on that application?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, if form 57 requires references, I don’t---- Maybe it wasn’t form 57. I don’t want this to be misinterpreted.

Mr. MOULDER. It is a standard application form required by governmental departments.

Mr. STENHOUSE. I don’t recall any application in which I put references. It may be so.

Mr. MOULDER. But you did make a written application setting forth your experience and qualifications?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Oh, yes.

Mr. MOULDER. And was there an oath on that application?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Yes.

Mr. MOULDER. Which you had to sign?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Yes.

Mr. MOULDER. And did anyone recommend you for this position to which you were assigned in Washington?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Somebody recommended me in the sense that they referred my name and qualifications to Ellis Patterson.

Mr. MOULDER. Do you know who that person was?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I am not sure who it was. We had a large number of friends from Los Angeles at that time, and it may have been one of the people that we were active with in that Democratic campaign. I think it probably was.

Mr. MOULDER. When you were made section chief, who was your immediate superior?

Mr. STENHOUSE. (Name deleted.)

Mr. MOULDER. Did he have anything to do with your promotion to that position?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I am sure he did.

Mr. MOULDER. Do you remember the names of the persons who were employed under your immediate supervision?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, there was one fellow just prior to my promotion. (Name deleted.)

Mr. MOULDER. I am not suggesting any of those persons be named in the record; I am testing your memory as to why you remember some people with whom you were associated and why you cannot remember the names of some other people with whom you were closely associated.

Mr. STENHOUSE. I can remember the names of many of the people in my division because we have exchanged Christmas cards since then, and I have seen some of them since then.

Mr. MOULDER. In line with Mr. Velde’s questioning regarding the first Communist Party meeting to which you referred, how did you go? By car, by bus, or by train? Was it just as you say, a short distance? How did you get there?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No, I didn’t say it was a short distance. I said it was in Virginia.

Mr. MOULDER. That is not far from the District of Columbia.

Mr. STENHOUSE. We lived in Maryland.

Mr. MOULDER. How did you travel to the place of the meeting?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I suppose it was by bus because we didn’t have a car in those days.

Mr. MOULDER. You went by bus over there?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I say bus. I mean public transportation.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Chairman, I think we ought to make it clear we have no intention of having the public press or anyone else feel that any of the persons you mention who were associated with you in your professional work at that time are connected in any way with the Communist Party or any of its functions. We have hitherto tried to make that perfectly clear. The mere fact that you mention a name of one of your associates should lead no one to believe that he is in any way connected with it or has been connected with the Communist Party or Communist Party activities.

Mr. MOULDER. Did other employees in your section attend any of the meetings to which you have referred?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No.

Mr. MOULDER. In line with Congressman Velde’s suggestion the names mentioned by you in that connection will be stricken from the record.

Mr. STENHOUSE. I want to make one clarification.

In regard to this matter of references, I don’t want it on the record that I didn’t give any references. If they were required I suppose I gave them. But don’t remember now who I gave.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Another point, Mr. Chairman, in regard to this matter of remembering the names of the people who were at these discussion groups, there were not more than 3 or 4 meetings as far as I remember. There were very few in number.

Mr. MOULDER. How many meetings did you attend while you were in Washington?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Three or four; at the most, five; I can’t remember exactly. They are very limited. I am trying to live back in those days and pinpoint when it could have been and where they could have been. And I can identify in a vague way three locations.

Mr. MOULDER. Were you issued a Communist Party membership card at any time while you were in Washington, D. C.?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I don’t think so.

Mr. MOULDER. But you still refer to them as Communist Party meetings?

Mr. STENHOUSE. That is what I understood them to be. I am sure in my own mind now that I was just on the fringes of this thing, that----

Mr. MOULDER. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you not describe the meetings in Washington as being the same type of meetings you attended in Los Angeles?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I said they were similar.

Mr. MOULDER. Doesn’t that mean the same type?

What difference was there between the meetings you attended in Washington and those you attended in Los Angeles?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, I suppose one difference would be that in Washington, D. C., to the best of my knowledge, all the people present were members of the union.

Mr. MOULDER. Were they also all employees in the Department of Commerce?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Right.

Mr. MOULDER. Were any of them employees in your immediate section?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No.

Mr. MOULDER. The China Section of the Department of Commerce?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No.

Mr. MOULDER. Do you, of your own personal knowledge, know whether any of the persons attending those meetings were members of the Communist Party?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, they were at the meetings.

Mr. MOULDER. Yes; but that isn’t my point. They were at the meetings, but do you know of your own personal knowledge whether or not they were Communist Party members?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Why I don’t know how you identify that exactly. I don’t recall seeing anybody’s card. Again, there was some sort of dues payment.

Mr. MOULDER. Do you recall hearing any one of them say that they were members of the Communist Party?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I can’t remember now whether they did or not. I was there and I thought I was some sort of a member, and I just assumed--Maybe I shouldn’t assume it. But I just assumed they were.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you pay dues in this organization or in this group?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, again, it was somewhat the same arrangement as before. There were books to be bought and some sort of dues arrangement.

Mr. TAVENNER. To whom did you pay the dues?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, I don’t remember who the individual was. The money was just--somebody said “Well, here are the books.” And the money was put on the table.

Mr. TAVENNER. How long did you remain a member of that group or attend meetings of that group?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, that is the question that you asked before, and, as I told you, I find it very difficult to pinpoint the time. I think I can limit it to somewhere near the end of 1945 because of the fact that I didn’t get there until June and I had the operation, and then my family came out, and we were preoccupied with getting into a house and things of that sort. And I think it was--I was out of it by the early part of 1947.

Mr. TAVENNER. So that you continued until the early part of 1947?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, I say it was somewhere in that area. And I can’t remember.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, the circumstances under which you stopped attending these meetings?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Well, the Communist publications that we were studying seemed to be overready to excuse the Soviet Union and criticize our country, and this didn’t jibe with the ideas that I had had about the situation during the war. And I just stopped going and nobody ever tried to get me back in or approached me in any way.

Mr. TAVENNER. You have said that you cannot recall the names of any of these people or give any more descriptive information than you have because of the lapse of time, and the fact that you are separated now by long distance from the place you were then.

Did anything occur in 1946 or 1947 which would have served to refresh your recollection as to who these individuals were?

Something that would have called this matter very definitely to your attention and would have impressed itself on your memory. Do you recall anything of an unusual character having occurred?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I suppose you are referring to the fact that I was investigated or questioned by the FBI.

Mr. TAVENNER. That is right.

Mr. STENHOUSE. It may have recalled their names to me then, but it doesn’t now.

Mr. VELDE. Did you give any names to the FBI when you were questioned?

Mr. STENHOUSE. No; I didn’t.

Mr. VELDE. You said it may have recalled some of the names to you at that time but it doesn’t now. If at that time it recalled the names of people with whom you had associated, why didn’t you give them to the FBI?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I declined to state whether or not I had been a member of the Communist Party in Los Angeles.

Mr. VELDE. Do you mean you declined to state to the FBI whether or not you had been a member of the Communist Party in Los Angeles?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Yes. And, as far as I remember, he told me I didn’t have to state. I can’t be sure of that, but that is my recollection.

Mr. VELDE. Of course, you don’t have to tell the FBI anything. But I am just wondering what was in your mind at that time--the reason why you did not give the FBI that information.

Mr. STENHOUSE. The reason was that I had, to the best of my knowledge and conscience, done nothing hostile to the United States. In fact, I thought that I had been a very loyal and active citizen in promoting the war effort.

Mr. TAVENNER. When did your employment terminate with the Department of Commerce?

Mr. STENHOUSE. I got my termination notice in October, and it was effective in November of 1947.

Mr. TAVENNER. What was the reason for termination of your services?

Mr. STENHOUSE. It stated that I was being relieved due to a reduction in force.

Mr. TAVENNER. I believe you stated then your next employment was with the United Nations. Is that correct?

Mr. STENHOUSE. Yes, sir.