Part 23

In connection with this whole matter of hospitalization, the eyes of the country are on you, who are charged with this great responsibility. No body of men in Government service has more complexing situations to meet than you have. You are surrounded by every embarrassment. In these days, when the pinhead demagogues are flourishing; when the mere politician is willing to capitalize anything, even a wounded soldier, to catch votes, you know that you are liable to have your constructive work unjustly attacked. To get into the lime-light many men will sacrifice right principles, and it is distressing to see the antics of the puny men in public life seeking to ingratiate themselves in public favor in connection with soldier relief. The demagogue has no hesitation in attacking those things which are right only provided they happen to be unpopular. His mind, unlike yours, is not on the real good of the soldier. He is thinking what the newspapers may say about him.

You must be courageous; you must work for the real good of the soldier; you must work for the real good of the Government; and I will tell you something. There is no privilege so great, which comes with public life, as to courageously stand for that which is right, and in so doing take castigation from demagogues for doing one’s duty. It all comes out right in the long run.

In the midst of your discouraging embarrassments, when carefully thought out measures of sane relief for wounded veterans are often attacked by unscrupulous men, who thereby can advertise for a little time their insignificant personalities; if you sometimes are tempted to take the easy way and join the yelping pack of destructive critics, be comforted in the thought of that everlasting truth that in the long run the man who fearlessly does right in public place survives, and the man who weakly takes the wrong way because it is easy receives only ignominy.”

GEN. SAWYER: It seems unnecessary for me to say, still it is only fair to General Dawes, that he has injected into the affairs of Government the greatest enthusiasm and the most interest that has been known in Government affairs in all the history of the Republic.

His idea of coordination, which came to him out of the trying experience of the war on the other side has certainly served him a wonderful purpose in the effects that he has brought about in this new plan of conducting the affairs of the Administration on a business basis, and I certainly hope that each of you, as you go back to your fields of activity, will carry with you the idea that you have a most responsible position. No matter how small your institution, the responsibilities, the liabilities and the needs are all the same.

It may interest you to know that in the few weeks this present Board has existed, we have been able to turn over to the various hospitals of the country in which we have been particularly and necessarily interested, in a hurry, several million dollars worth of property. Arrangements are now in operation whereby in caring and preparing for nearly 11,000 new beds, we have in mind to avail ourselves of the great resources of the Army and Navy in supplying these needs; and I must say out of fairness to the heads of those Departments, as represented by the medical departments, that more hearty cooperation could not be obtained. To give you an evidence of something of the difference of today and yesterday, early last summer an appeal came to me to provide some cots for one of your institutions. It was impossible for me to locate cots that I could make accessible for the purpose, and one day one of our own representatives from this Board looking about found 80 car-loads of these cots at Des Moines, Iowa. Now when we are in need of cots, we know where to find them and know how to get possession of them; and this is true of all the things that are really necessary in the conduct of your affairs.

I am here to say to you without any fear of contradiction that this Hospitalization Board has already accomplished some very helpful things, and we have many more things in mind. One thing we do not assume, and that is authority. We have no idea or desire of being autocratic in our administration but we have a firm determination that regardless of any sentiment or any emotion which may be brought to influence the affairs of this Board, we will go on with what we believe to be the best thing for the men we are trying to serve.

I believe that the service we should render and that we must render, and the only service that is worth while to the veteran, is to make him well if possible, and, if not, to make him as nearly well as he can be and as resourceful as he can be and put him back into life again with confidence in himself, with respect to his Government and with ambition to make America the leading Government of all the governments of the world.

I am here to say to you that while you are talking to your patients about the affairs that arise with you each day, do not forget as a part of your responsibility and your duty that you help to create a spirit and a determination on the part of the man you are serving to get back into life again. Discourage in every way you possibly can the idea of his becoming a barnacle upon this great Ship of State. Encourage him to believe that the responsibility of the debts that are incurred here now are debts his children and his grandchildren will have to pay; and so, while we are talking economy to you, I would impress upon you this one thought: that economy is only the assurance to yourself that every hundred cents buys a dollar’s worth. We do not mean by the economy we are trying to preach here economy that might be regarded as penuriousness. We want you to have all you need in the best way that it can be provided for you, but we want you to have concern enough in the property that is turned over to you to see that it is worth what you pay for it and that it is used to the best advantage possible.

Yesterday, we decided, I believe, that we would devote an hour this morning to the answering of some miscellaneous interrogations. Dr. White, have you received any?

DR. WHITE: No.

SURGEON W. H. SANFORD (R): Having spent the last year and a half in the Inspection Division, the subject of this excessive amount of money in the hands of the sick soldier has impressed itself on me more and more as I inspected the hospitals. It was the cause of great trouble, and is in my opinion doing more to hinder the patient than any one factor. Without this $80.00 or $157.50 a month, the vice and crime and drinking around the institutions could not exist, and therefore I believe that one of the greatest things that could be accomplished at this Conference would be for the Committee to promulgate some way of preventing these men from using that money in the way it is being used today.

I have inspected Ft. Bayard, Ft. Stanton and other large institutions in the West, and I know these men in charge will agree with me when I say that the thing that hampers the recovery of the patients is their right to expend the money the way they want. If they didn’t have it, the rum-runner and the other vices that come would not be there. I think it is one of the most important subjects we could settle, and suggest that it would be well if the Committee would recommend that we give these men, say, $15.00 a month, and take care of the rest of their money until they are ready to go back to their homes.

SURGEON J. E. MILLER (R): At our hospital we have a canteen. I suppose most hospitals have canteens. We have had $3,000 paid into the hospital—$3,000 a year profit on sales to soldiers. I think such money could be turned in for the benefit of the soldiers, for entertainments, Christmas dinners, etc., as that seems the proper place for it.

MR. M. SANGER (St. Elizabeths Hospital): With reference to those funds of the beneficiaries who are in hospitals, a similar condition

existed for a while with reference to those drawing pensions. That proposition had to be met. Congress passed a law whereby those people receiving pensions, who entered soldiers’ homes or hospitals had to pay that money either to the superintendent of the hospital, the President of the Soldiers’ Home, or the Governor of the Home, to be cared for the benefit of the pensioner. Those who had beneficiaries at home received the benefit of their portion of the pension under supervision of the Pension Office, the Pension Office having machinery to find out what beneficiaries had dependents, etc., and what proportion of the pension should be paid to them.

The only thing in connection with these funds paid to the hospitals which led to complaint was the money paid to heads of hospitals or Soldiers’ Homes for deposit in the Treasury, but which was not drawing interest. This needs corrective legislation. Precedents are at hand. Moneys paid into the Treasury by beneficiaries or enlisted men of the Army or Navy are drawing interest. The money from these pensioners should be drawing interest. These funds, whether from the pensioners or beneficiaries of the War Risk Bureau should be used as a sinking-fund possibly to retire the debt of the Government and in that manner to draw interest. It would help the Government in becoming part of the sinking-fund; it would help the veteran in that it would permit the money received to be deposited for his benefit, and would give an opportunity for regulations to be made to safeguard him; to prevent these people from coming around the institutions by preventing his having excessive money to spend. Then when the man is discharged, he would have an estate with which to begin life and to provide for the future.

I think this organization should give some consideration to this matter. I refer to Acts of February 20, 1905 and February 7, 1909, and similar acts in regard to Soldiers’ Homes. I think the one thing to be considered is a means of investing these funds for drawing interest.

MAJOR GENERAL M. W. IRELAND: The question of patients having money while in the hospital is one of the most demoralizing things that can happen. It has been recognized in the Army for many years.

In the Philippines we had a sympathetic commanding officer and we received permission to with-hold a certain portion of the funds. Then we received word from the Secretary of War that it was contrary to law; that the money was earned by the soldier, and had to be paid to him.

I think you are going to find the same is true of compensation. If you are going to hold the compensation of the man while he is in the hospital, you will have to get an Act of Congress. I think, therefore, that you should consider the amount of compensation the man should get while in the hospital; consider the proposition of maybe reducing his compensation while in the hospital, being cared for by the Government.

SENIOR SURGEON J. E. DEDMAN (R): I am glad this subject came up. A year and a half ago, a committee of T. B. experts came to our hospital and we discussed that question. I made the statement that many of the men in our hospitals were getting too much money. It was immediately taken up by the American Legion, and they said all kinds of unkind things about me. I said that men who never had any money in their lives single boys, etc., were getting $80.00 a month and that this was too much money.

I cited the instance of where a lady came into my office, weeping. She said she had been dependent upon her son; that he had gotten that day a check for $1200; had bought an automobile for $1500; and had gone $300 in debt.

The greatest set of vultures we have to contend with are the automobile salesmen. For instance, they come and sell to our boys for $700 cars which would sell for $400. If the boy has $500, they charge him $750 in order to get notes and keep him in debt.

I am in favor of getting an Act of Congress to put the man’s money at interest, so that when he is rehabilitated he will have something to take care of himself. As it is now the boys are spending their money for hootch, automobiles, etc., and instead of rehabilitating them we are ruining them.

MR. M. SANGER, St. Elizabeths’ Hospital: In regard to the question of General Ireland, the pension regulations include a provision that one part of the pension shall be devoted to reimbursing the hospital for part of the care. I think that would serve in a way to admit of those in hospital getting less while there than when outside.

SENIOR SURGEON G. B. YOUNG, U.S.P.H.S. While on the subject I offer the suggestion that something might be done along this line in connection with the disciplinary regulations, which provide that when a man is discharged for disciplinary reasons his compensation will be withheld for a certain period. We all know that we sometimes will have to discharge people for disciplinary reasons, and it may happen that the offense is of such a character and the man of such a character as to make you feel that the sentence you have to impose upon him as compared to that which you have to impose upon a flagrant offender is lacking in elasticity. It seems to me that it would be well in this connection to consider whether the regulations could provide for the with-holding of compensation by the Veterans’ Bureau for a greater period as an incentive to better conduct, so that the man might be returned to the hospital with the incentive that if he behaves satisfactorily that this money which had been withheld would be restored. As it is a man has to be discharged and he goes out penniless, because he hasn’t anything coming to him for several months. If he could look forward to a suspended sentence, I think that would save some of the better element among these possible unintentional offenders and get them back into a line of good behavior.

COLONEL JAMES A. MATTISON, N.H.D.V.S. This question which was brought up by Congressman Madden, General Ireland and others is a very pertinent one. This method of handling the funds of men of former wars has been in effect in the National Home service for many years. The matter just spoken of in regard to handling this money in a disciplinary way has also been a feature. In regard to the men who have been offenders, who have been continually guilty of getting drunk, the commanding officer of each hospital had the authority to with-hold, as a disciplinary measure, any part or the whole of a man’s pension until such time as he saw fit to turn the money over to the man or a part of it. Of course the matter of with-holding pension money in the case of men of former wars is of much less importance. Formerly, these men were getting $10, $20 and $25 a month, and when Congress passed a pension law providing $30 a month, they saved money. That does not compare with the pensions our soldiers of the recent war are receiving, $80, $100 and $150 a month, and, as has been stated by several men already, it has been and is going to continue to be one of the greatest factors in preventing these men from being restored to an active state in life again.

In the matter of the corrupt conditions which have been described as existing around these hospitals, it is something that cannot be prevented. Every effort has been made. The civil authorities have been appealed to and in most cases they have given undivided co-operation. Personally, I feel that it is an exceedingly important matter.

SURGEON J. B. ANDERSON (R): If I have interpreted the regulations correctly, we are not permitted to have a canteen around the hospital. If I am in error, I should like to know it.

LIEUT. COL. W. H. MONCRIEF, U.S.A.: Contrary to the impression given here yesterday afternoon, revelry does not maintain at Fitzsimmons Hospital. I think we have a well-ordered institution. The matter of compensation does give us some concern.

We have four classes of patients,—Army, Navy, beneficiaries of Soldiers’ Homes and of the Veterans’ Bureau. On the day I left, we had a total of 980 patients, 719 of which were Veterans’ Bureau beneficiaries. These are officers, ex-nurses and ex-enlisted men. I will say that the behavior of these people during my tour of duty at the hospital compares favorably with that of any other institution. We have our troubles; if we didn’t have them, I don’t suppose the institution would need a commanding officer.

But the question of compensation is one that is not easily adjusted unless it is adjusted at the source. It is impossible to give you an idea—unless you have charge of one of these institutions—of how much trouble the commanding officer is going to have if the responsibility of withholding this compensation is put on him.

We are near a large city—not too near and not too far—but we are surrounded by people who want to offer at all times every inducement to the enlisted men to spend this amount of compensation in the most advantageous manner. This class ranges from the peddler of tin toys to the most reliable banking firms in the city of Denver. Those bank representatives wait on us. Since I have been there, I have had to pursue the policy of excluding from the reservation all solicitation whatsoever, my argument being that it was my duty, to protect the T. B. patients; that if one solicitor were allowed, others must be allowed; and that I had no time nor inclination to pass upon the merits of the various propositions offered. I have not had a great deal of trouble; and since I have been able to get the representative people to understand this situation—and I take particular pains to inform all my personnel that reputable firms and others are aware of this prohibition—it is assumed that anyone soliciting on the reservation is not reputable.

I think a great deal can be done in regard to taking care of this matter by the social service work in the hospitals. The good people of Denver have been very kind in every way.

DR. BUTLER: In view of the fact that economy seems to be the order of the day, and to have economy the bird’s-eye view has been pointed out to organizations this morning, I suggest that as a fitting slogan for this body, the words. “Cultivate a bird’s-eye view” be adopted.

GENERAL SAWYER: I don’t know just what authority you gentlemen have in regard to the matter of solicitors, but at White Oaks Farm if interruptions such as these attempted to exist, somebody would get hurt. I would not tolerate the existence of such affairs. There is no reason why you should, and if there is any reason why you shouldn’t, this Board can help you to bring about some regulation or some rule whereby it will be possible for you to protect yourselves and your people against such imposition as this. Be assured that this Board is going to provide it; but I really think that if you will exercise your authority as commanding officers and not allow these people to intrude upon you, you will be able to cure a lot of your difficulties at home.

SURGEON J. M. WHEATE (R), U.S.P.H.S.: A year ago we were swarmed with agents, and I sent out a hospital regulation prohibiting that. It is easy to issue regulations, but hard to put them into effect, so I have made it a rule to make my regulations as few as possible. This, however, I found to be a necessary regulation, and I prohibited agents of all kinds from access to the hospital.

We have a hundred-acre field, which is approachable in a hundred different ways, and there is no way of keeping such agents out of the reservation. I had my Captain of the Watch made a Deputy United States Marshal. I had my head orderly made a constable for the county. They helped me to maintain order outside the reservation.

The matter of compensation has been a big problem with all of us. I recall that about the first time I got “in bad” with my patients was early in the game. I was waited on by a delegation of patients in my office one morning, who asked if I were properly quoted in the morning paper. I had not seen the paper.

A day or two before, a committee of Legion men called at my office (we had most happy relations with the local Legion heads). One of this Committee was the editor of a local paper. Among the general things we discussed was the abuse of compensation. I said I wished we had some law like Canada, whereby all but one-fourth of the compensation could be withheld, as I believed that ten dollars a month was enough for a sick man in the hospital. This was discussed and it sounded reasonable.

The next day, to my surprise, the editor of the local paper printed the story of my recommendation; and the young chap, thinking I suppose to give me the credit for the thought, quoted me freely.

The soldiers appointed a committee to wait on me. They wanted to know if I thought it fair to the United States soldier. They said it was their money and that they proposed to spend it as they saw fit.

Out of this controversy grow consideration by the Legion; and in course of time that Legion Post sent a committee man to Washington, who had a long conference with Mr. Sweet; and indirectly I may be much to be condemned or praised for introducing into the Sweet Bill the measure of withholding compensation. Our committee man who went up there stated that it was a rather new thought to Mr. Sweet and that he waved it aside at first, but that later he showed interest and finally said he was going to rewrite his bill, incorporating that idea.

But it did not go nearly as far as I recommended; that is, the adoption of the Canadian form of withholding all but one-fourth. There is no need to discuss that. Mr. Sweet said it was illegal; that compensation is a wage; but he compromised by saying we could fine the men.

Regarding my drastic order, I might add that I do allow the agents of the banks to come in, and I am proud to say that we do handle much of our trouble by depositing money either for checking accounts or savings. I think that about forty per cent of our men are carrying savings accounts in the local banks.

We have at least 160 N. P. cases in my hospital, although it is officially a T. B. hospital. As you know, the regulation provides that if a man is not capable of handling his money, his compensation check will be sent to the Commanding Officer, who is held responsible for the money. I put the money in the bank, giving to the man, after conferring with the Chief of the N. P. Section, such funds as he may need.

SURGEON M. J. WHITE: Early in 1919, when I first opened Palo Alto, I made recommendation for the amendment of the Act, so that the Compensation of a patient might be held until he had completely recovered, and I see no reason why there is a legal bar to it. I think Congress can say that Compensation is payable when a man has completely recovered and is discharged from the hospital. We cannot undertake to protect the patients from sharks. For instance, we give a man a pass; he goes down town and spends his money. As long as he has money in his pocket, he will spend it. I think it would be legal for Congress to say that Compensation will be payable when the man has reached maximum hospital treatment or when he is properly discharged. Otherwise, if a patient has accumulated, say, $160, he starts a disturbance and you have to give him the money.

CAPTAIN F. W. Wieber, U.S.N.:—I am glad to say that we have had very little trouble with our Veterans’ Bureau patients. We have, however, had trouble occasionally, but I have always been able to attend to these matters myself, for I have a good understanding with a U. S. Attorney, who helps me out.

Regarding money, it would be the best thing if most of the Compensation to the men could be withheld. They may have dependent families, so no uniform rule could guide us in our action. I do not think it should be left to the Commanding Officer, for in the first place, we do not know how much money the men should receive.